Submitted 1 month ago by LambdaRX@sh.itjust.works to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
If we knew how to create world simulation, and how to make it working 4D, then humans would be able to plug themselves in, and experience 4D space. Alternatively there could simulated 4D beings, whose sentience could be transferred to robot body in our real 3D space.
We already experience 4D; our fourth dimension is time.
It’s correct, but I meant spatial dimensions.
There are some 4d experimental games. One is a space flight Sim that allows players to move in a fourth dimension, entering and exiting physical space in a semi physics-compatible way. It’s really fun and it tends to break your brain a little.
According to somy physics theories, we’re living in a world with at least 11 dimensions.
But we can only sense and understand 3.
*A fourth dimension can be time.
Time is a very convenient choice for a fourth dimension, but “fourth” is purely namesake. There’s no reason we couldn’t describe our world in our three familiar spatial coordinates with an additional coordinate for temperature, for example. We just don’t easily conceptualize it that way because it feels less contiguous according to how we currently frame our model of reality.
Disclaimer: my sources include internet research and far too much time to think. I’m absolutely open to discussion and new ideas in whatever form.
I’d recommend checking out 4d Toys - I believe it is compatible with VR so you could sort of do what you’re describing.
You are correct that 4d toys (and other games) already simulate 4 spatial dimensions. But those games all display the 4th dimensional space from a 3 dimensional projection. I think what OP is suggesting is creating a game that displays an actual 4 spatial dimensions. I have argued in another comment that I don’t think this is possible in a way that our brains could ever percieve or process due to the limitations of a brain evolved in 3 spatial dimensions.
The subject of how humans might perceive four dimensional space is covered in a later book of three body novels (Remembrance of earth's past series). The author describes is as being able to see into sealed three-dimensional objects as if they had an open top. As such you could easily traverse into sealed rooms etc from such a perspective.
I thought it was quite an interesting idea.
Can you just imagine how insufferable 4d tech bros would be? Yeah I’ll pass
Yep and there already is a game that does it. It called 4D Golf and you ca n play it also I’m VR. On the YouTube channel codeparade are a lot of interesting dev logs.
What exactly are you defining the 4th dimension as…?
Another space dimension, which has same relation to our three X Y Z dimensions, as third dimension Z has relation to X Y.
For clarity the word is perpendicularity. A 4th spatial dimension would have to be perpendicular to all 3 other spatial dimensions.
Ah I understand you now, I was confused about you not specifying space when referring to 4D, mb.
No. Do you have any idea how fucking difficult and complex angle math is when it becomes 3d? Not every rotation related problem can be explained and solved by modern mathematics as it is. Making it 4d would be even more ridiculous.
We would have to experience 4D to emulate it.
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 1 month ago
There’s nothing technically stopping us from simulating 4 spatial dimensions now. In fact, there are several games that utilize a 4th dimension in their gameplay. Here’s 8 examples. The problem is that our brains evolved in 3 spatial dimensions and, even if we can conceive of, define the nature of, and to some degree even indirectly imagine a 4th spacial dimension, our brains are hardwired to think in 3 dimensions and our understanding of a 4th spatial dimension can only be in 3 dimensional terms. The software of our brains, and the hardware of our eyes are simply incapable of perceiving and processing a 4th spatial dimension as it truly is. It would always be filtered through the lens of 3 spatial dimensions, projected into a 3 dimensional form that we can understand.
For a good example of this limitation, we regularly show 3 dimensions in film, tv, animations, video games, etc. projected on 2 dimensional surfaces. We can interpret those 2 dimensional images into an understanding of the 3 dimensional spaces being projected, but A) we do not actually perceived them as 3d. We still only see height and width. Depth is imagined largely based on perceived scale and parallax oocclusion. and B) we are only able to see the 3 dimensional space in our minds because that is how our minds always perceive space. In order to make those 2 dimensional images seem actually 3 dimensional, we have to project different 2 dimensional images to each eye with precise focal lengths and angles to mimic our actual eyesight in 3 dimensional space. Only with that stereoscopic view do we actually see 3 dimensionality with actual depth. Now, with that understanding, that it takes 2 projections in 2d to trick our minds into seeing 3d, how would you trick our perception into seeing 4d? How to we make either our eyes or our brains see whatever the 4th dimensional direction is called? A 3rd eye? No, plenty of animals have more than 3 eyes or even compound eyes, and so only precise 3d. We have to perceive a direction perpendicular to height, width, and depth that does not actually exist. How would you achieve that goal?
I don’t think that is actually possible. I think, like those games in the link, even in a simulation we are stuck playing with the 4th dimension via its interaction with and projection onto 3 dimensions because our brains cannot truly process what a 4th spatial dimension would even be.
intensely_human@lemm.ee 1 month ago
There’s no reason why a brain can’t interact with 4 dimensional space. You just have to feed accurate 4D data into the brain and it will learn.
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Interact with, yes. Process and perceive it as it truly is? I don’t believe so, no.
ApollosArrow@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I’ve always been fascinated by 4D, but a question just came to mind. Would we gain anything by being able to perceive that extra dimension living only in a 3D world? Is there anything we are currently not seeing that may exist in our world? Would we just have x-ray vision?
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 1 month ago
If there were a 4th spatial dimension and you could see in 4 dimensions, yes, you could see the inside of some things that are enclosed in 3 dimensions. It wouldn’t be like x-ray vision exactly though. Think about a sphere in 3d. It is enclosed. When you take 2d projections of the sphere by slicing cross-sections of the ball, from a 2d observer on that plane, they would also see an enclosed circular object. But from the 3rd dimensional observer looking down at that cross section they can see everything enclosed in the circle. From the 4th dimension, then it stands to reason they would have a similar view of a 3 dimensional objects innards. But rather than seeing through the object like in an x-ray, they just see the whole thing laid out in every detail at once like we see the insides of the 2d circle.