The real offenders (except for some stupid rookies) move to the dark web and won’t touch the official apps while politicians use this power to scan for political and environmental activists, opponents and critics.
EU chat control law proposes scanning your messages — even encrypted ones
Submitted 6 months ago by boem@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 6 months ago
DacoTaco@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I said the same to a coworker this week. If i were to be part or manage an illegal ring like csam, id make my own protocol/app that just uses encryption. Youre already doing illegal shit, go one further so you dont get caught
MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Just use Briar lol
EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 6 months ago
Probably won’t even need anonymizers for this! Chances are concealing usage of your own server would not be that hard on the clearnet either.
MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 6 months ago
No it will be. Having your own XMPP/IRC server doesn’t prevent the NSA from spying on your metadata, and that’s exactly what will happen. It’s just that TOR and I2P will likely see an increase in traffic
faizalr@kbin.run 6 months ago
Freedom?
mannycalavera@feddit.uk 6 months ago
Freedom of goods, freedom of services, freedom of capital, freedom of movement, and freedom of reading all of your private messages (excluding EU officials, naturally).
BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world 6 months ago
AIhasUse@lemmy.world 6 months ago
This is that super forward-thinking EU tech protection we are always hearing about that the whole world should be so jealous of.
NekkoDroid@programming.dev 6 months ago
This is a proposal by people funded by companies that would provide the services for this.
A lot of actual politicians oppose this tbbacherle.eu/2024/06/18/open-letter/
Jocker@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
May I also suggest surveiling every knife in every kitchen, since people historically had killed other people with knife
neeeeDanke@feddit.de 6 months ago
Two German states are about to attempt introducing a law at the federal level banning all knives with blades longer then 6cm (~1.5 in) from beeing carried in publicin public.
kurcatovium@lemm.ee 6 months ago
You have quite a big inches in Germany, my friend.
Pringles@lemm.ee 6 months ago
This law, if it were to pass, is 100% guaranteed to be shot down by the European courts for invasion of privacy.
thisNotMyName@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Unfortunately the court wasn’t that strict in it’s most recent decision regarding data retention (different lead judge combined with the endless tries from the politics)
Brickardo@feddit.nl 6 months ago
Suppose the bill goes through. Is there any reliable alternative for privately communicating? Asking for myself.
neumast@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Wow, did you just really confess as an child porn distributor/consumer? Who else would need such an communication alternative?
Randelung@lemmy.world 6 months ago
… This is a really bad time for a “I am Spartacus” thing.
EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 6 months ago
I don’t think it would be enforceable for everyone hosting servers for themselves. I personally use XMPP, Matrix and recently Simplex.
0x0@programming.dev 6 months ago
Distributed/Federated apps probably? Session, Briar…
Overlay networks like Tor, I2P and Hyphanet (ex-Freenet)?
MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Oh, I didn’t know Freenet had a successor. Did something happen to it?
MonkderDritte@feddit.de 6 months ago
Open Source. And fuck it, it’s not enforceable anyway.
ripcord@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Open source what, specifically? And would they not be required to do the same things (which would be harder to enforce, but still)?
Zink@programming.dev 6 months ago
Feels like a strange move, from an American who is used to seeing the EU do things that should put our government to shame.
Are they trying to get the US to join the EU? Lol
Chrobin@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
Every other year the EU tries to pass another mass surveillance law - and the EU court of human rights rules it illegal.
zyratoxx@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Positive news: at least Germany will reject it, let’s hope more members follow their lead
According to Nancy Faeser, it is appropriate to “hold online platforms accountable so that depictions of abuse are discovered, deleted and the perpetrators prosecuted”. However, if the current proposal remains, the representative of the Federal Republic of Germany would have to vote no, said the SPD politician. "Because we must take targeted action and maintain the balance of the rule of law. Encrypted private communications of millions of people must not be monitored without cause.
neeeeDanke@feddit.de 6 months ago
Seems like enough did: netzpolitik.org/…/etappensieg-belgien-scheitert-m…
Treczoks@lemm.ee 6 months ago
And the reasoning? As always Terrorists, pedophile, criminals, etc. Guess what: If those guys have not learned yet to make a big detour around official chat apps, they deserve getting caught. My bet is, those people already have their own secured means of communication. Maybe they hve their own, encrypted app, or they have a forum somewhere in the Darknet, whatever. But the chance that this new law will catch anything worthwhile is practically nil.
Vitaly@feddit.uk 6 months ago
Imagine scanning encrypted messages
OozingPositron@feddit.cl 6 months ago
Won’t somebody think of le childrun!!!11!1!1!!
autotldr@lemmings.world [bot] 6 months ago
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The law, first introduced in 2022, would implement an “upload moderation” system that scans all your digital messages, including shared images, videos, and links.
Several organizations, including the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Center for Democracy & Technology, and Mozilla, have also signed a joint statement urging the EU to reject proposals that scan user content.
In a statement to The Verge, Breyer also points out that the Belgian Presidency ends later this month, and the country’s current Minister of the Interior has been at the forefront of the chat control bill.
Last year, a poll conducted by the European Digital Rights (EDRi) group suggested that 66 percent of young people in the EU disagree with policies allowing internet providers to scan their messages.
“Many lawmakers understand that fundamental rights prohibit mass surveillance, but they don’t want to be seen opposing a scheme that’s framed as combatting CSAM,” Breyer says.
“My message is that children and abuse victims deserve measures that are truly effective and will hold up in court, not just empty promises, tech solutionism and hidden agendas.”
The original article contains 642 words, the summary contains 177 words. Saved 72%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
nikaaa@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Short question: how would they enforce that? What if I use some obscure messenger that nobody has ever heard of? What if I simply use
telnetornetcatto send messages to other people?calcopiritus@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Telnet? Banned. You now need the EUs approval to use networking software. The only apps that any EU users can use that uses the network interface are those whitelisted by the EU.
That’s the only way that this is enforceable. And still pretty easy to defeat, or are they gonna Linux too? Since Linux comes with the source code, anyone could recompile it removing the restriction.
It’s just absurd.
gravitywell@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Keylogging or screen recording basically.
essteeyou@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Does this cover all messages sent between me and my teammates about the secret projects we’re working on, or are we only fucking over the people, and not the companies?
SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 6 months ago
If you’re working on a secret project, you make your own communication tools and protocols. Or if you’re lazy you just set up a mail server behind a VPN.
essteeyou@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Nah, everyone uses Slack or Teams or whatever. Look at Rockstar and the GTA6 leak, for example.
rbits@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Making your own protocols means vulnerabilities are more likely. Better to use one that’s been tested and audited (unless it’s following something like this EU thing of course)
Octagon9561@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
No thanks
MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Let’s see them deal with PGP-encrypted email lol
MonkderDritte@feddit.de 6 months ago
Yet again? Salamitaktik?
CrowAirbrush@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Can we just send 200 billion fake messages every millisecond to overload them constantly? Forcing them to pull out.
ByteWelder@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
The scanning is done on your device. You could theoretically only overload the CSAM reporting feature if such a thing will exist.
neclimdul@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Looks at gdpr Looks at new law Looks at gdpr Looks at security questionnaires from EU companies Looks at new law
Well past time to take up farming.
ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Sorry citizen, every time you enter the bar we’ve got to take a swab from your genitals to check that since you were last here you haven’t fucked any kids.
Fucking ridiculous. If you want to prevent CSAM spreading across Europe do this instead:
Investigation and surgical removal of the whole rotten ring of kid fuckers will curve CSAM creation and distribution in the EU.
Then preventative measures to stop creators/ consumers of CSAM because prevention is more effective than trying to cure it.
Child sexual abuse is one of, if not the most evil act someone can commit and they should face very steep punishment for it. And anyone proposing any policy offering help to reform them is committing political suicide.
But ignoring the fact that people have the capacity to commit an evil act of that magnitude, demonising them, and then offering no support network to prevent them is not going to solve the problem. It doesn’t work for any crime and certainly not this.
FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Unfortunately stopping CSAM isn’t the point. The point is eroding privacy and pretending it’s protecting kids.
Fester@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Yes, but those policies don’t provide political cover to eliminate everyone’s encryption and privacy, so…
cman6@lemmy.world 6 months ago
THIS.
I would recommend watching “Louis Theroux - Among the sex offenders” to get a better understanding of the lack of treatment available for people who don’t want to offend but feel compelled. Some of them are crying out for treatment!
narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Yup. Let’s not forget that pedophilia is a mental disorder. I’d assume that many people with pedophilia don’t become offenders, but I think that the number of offenders could be much lower still if these people got proper help and treatment before they ever commit a crime.
Sure, if these people actually commit crimes or if they’re about to, we have to make sure they’re physically unable to get anywhere near children. But I feel like in most circles if someone were to come out and admit they have this mental disorder, they’ll be frowned upon, probably lose all their “friends” and not get any help. On the internet, it’s far worse than this.
Moghul@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I really believe that this has nothing to do with kids. “For the kids” has made me suspicious of intentions for a long time. It makes it difficult to argue against it because it implies that you’re a pedo or are doing something illegal otherwise. You implement general monitoring “for the kids”, and then you add some anti piracy stuff to it, then you add some hate group detection, some anti government group detection, etc. Now you have everything you need to get ahead of any danger to the government. If the people can’t organize, you can do whatever you want.
tooLikeTheNope@lemmy.ml 6 months ago