I tried JPEG XL and it didn’t even make my files extra large. It actually made them SMALLER.
False advertising.
Comment on JPEG is Dying - And that's a bad thing | 2kliksphilip
ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 3 months ago
TL:DW, JPEG is getting old in the tooth, which prompted the creation of JPEG XL, which is a fairly future-proof new compression standard that can compress images to the same file size or smaller than regular JPEG while having massively higher quality.
However, JPEG XL support was removed from Google Chrome based browsers in favor of AVIF, a standalone image compression derived from the AV1 video compression codec that is decidedly not future-proof, having some hard-coded limitations, as well as missing some very nice to have features that JPEG XL offers such as progressive image loading and lower hardware requirements. The result of this is that JPEG XL adoption will be severely hamstrung by Google’s decision, which is ultimately pretty lame.
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 3 months ago
pastermil@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
I think you took the wrong enlargement pill.
Sabata11792@ani.social 3 months ago
Just set the pills to wumbo.
reddig33@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Jpeg XL isn’t backwards compatible with existing JPEG renderers. If it was, it’d be a winner. We already have PNG and JPG and now we’ve got people using the annoying webP. Adding another format that requires new decoder support isn’t going to help.
MimicJar@lemmy.world 3 months ago
“the annoying webp” AFAIK is the same problem as JPEG XL, apps just didn’t implement it.
It is supported in browsers, which is good, but not in third party apps. AVIF or whatever is going to have the same problem.
ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 3 months ago
Jpeg XL isn’t backwards compatible with existing JPEG renderers. If it was, it’d be a winner.
According to the video, and this article, JPEG XL is backwards compatible with JPEG.
But I’m not sure if that’s all that necessary. JPEG XL was designed to be a full, long term replacement to JPEG. Old JPEG’s compression is very lossy, while JPEG XL, with the same amount of computational power, speed, and size, outclasses it entirely. and PNG is lossless, and thus is not comparable since the file size is so much larger.
JPEG XL, at least from what I’m seeing, does appear to be the best full replacement for JPEG (and it’s not like they can’t co-exist).
reddig33@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s only backwards compatible in that it can re-encode existing jpeg content into the newer format without any image loss. Existing browsers and apps can’t render jpegXL without adding a new decoder.
ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 3 months ago
Existing browsers and apps can’t render jpegXL without adding a new decoder.
Why is that a negative?
JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 months ago
They’re confusing backwards and forwards compatible. The new file format is backwards compatible but the old renderers are not forward compatible with the new format.
AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 3 months ago
JPEG XL in lossless mode actually gives around 50% smaller file sizes than PNG
ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 3 months ago
Oh damn, even better than the estimates I found.
FaceDeer@fedia.io 3 months ago
My understanding is that webp isn't actually all that bad from a technical perspective, it was just annoying because it started getting used widely on the web before all the various tools caught up and implemented support for it.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s certainly not bad. It’s just not quite as good.
ArchRecord@lemm.ee 3 months ago
I just wish more software would support webp files. I remember Reddit converting every image to webp to save on space and bandwidth (smart, imo) but not allowing you to directly upload webp files in posts because it wasn’t a supported file format.
If webp was just more standardized, I’d love to use it more. It would certainly save me a ton of storage space.
KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
So… your solution is to stick with extremely dated and objectively bad file formats? You using Windows 95?
NateNate60@lemmy.world 3 months ago
What’s wrong with PNG?
KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
For what it is? Nothing.
Compared to something like JPEG XL? It is hands down worse in virtually all metrics.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 3 months ago
That’s why all my files are in TGA.
cygnus@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Forgive my ignorance, but isn’t this like complaining that a PlayStation 2 can’t play PS5 games?
tabular@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s a different culture between PCs can consoles. Consoles are standardized computers - they all have the same* hardware’ Game developers can be confident in what functionality their games have access to, and so use the best they can.
PCs in comparison are wildly different from user to user due to being modular: you can pick from many parts to create a computer. As such, devs tend to focus on what most PC’s can do and make them optionally better if the PC has access to supporting hardware (e.g. RTX ray-tracing cores).
Besides, video games are drastically complex in comparison to static images 😛
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
All the cool kids use .HEIF anyway
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
I use jpeg 2000
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 3 months ago
You can’t add new and better stuff while staying compatible with the old stuff. Especially not when your goal is compact files (or you’d just embed the old format).
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Isn’t that the same as other newer formats though?
There’s always something new, and if the new thing is better, adding/switching to it is the better move.
Or am I missing something about the other formats like webp?
reddig33@lemmy.world 3 months ago
You have to offer something compelling for everyone. Just coming out with yet another new standard™ isn’t enough. As pointed out earlier, we already have:
- jpeg
- Png
- Webp
- HEIC
What’s the point of adding another encoder/decoder to the table when PNG and JPEG are still “good enough”?
pennomi@lemmy.world 3 months ago
PNG and JPEG aren’t good enough, to be honest. If you run a content heavy site, you can see something like a 30-70% decrease in bandwidth usage by using WebP.
Peffse@lemmy.world 3 months ago
dezmd@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Look it’s all actually about re-encumberancing image file formats back into corporate controlled patented formats. If we would collectively just spend time and money and development resources expanding and improving PNG and gif formats that are no longer patent encumbered, we’d all live happily ever after.
gianni@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
JPEG-XL is in no way patent encumbered. Neither is AVIF. I don’t know what you’re talking about
dezmd@lemmy.world 3 months ago
encode.su/…/3863-RANS-Microsoft-wins-data-encodin…
www.theregister.com/2022/…/microsoft_ans_patent/
avifstudio.com/blogs/faq/avif-patents/
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26910515
aomedia.org/…/the-alliance-for-open-media-stateme…
If AVIF was not patent encumbered, AOMedia would not need to have a Patent License to allow open source use.
A majority of the most recent standards are effectively cabal esque private groups of Corporations that hold patents that on the underlying technology and then license the patents among each other as part of the standards org and throw a license bone towards open source. That can all be undone by the patent holders at their whim.
There’s no need to create a standard format that’s patent encumbered especially if they don’t ever intend to monetize that paten,t. It’s all about maintaining control of intellectual property and especially who was allowed and when they are allowed to profit from the standards.
gianni@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Royalty-free blanket patent licensing is compatible with Free Software and should be considered the same as being unpatented. Even if it’s conditioned on a grant of reciprocality. It’s only when patent holders start demanding money (or worse, withholding licenses altogether) that it becomes a problem
AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 3 months ago
its royalty free and has an open source implementation, what more could you want?
dezmd@lemmy.world 3 months ago
No patent encumbrance. That was the entire point.
Clawing control of patent infected media standards is far more important for a healthy open internet built on open standards that is not subject to the whims and controls of capital investment groups eating up companies to exert control of the entire technology standards pipeline.
fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 3 months ago
Why was it not included? AVIF creator influence bias. It’s a good story.
seaQueue@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Google’s handling of jxl makes a lot more sense after the jpegli announcement. It’s apparent now that they declined to support jxl in favor of cloning many of jxl’s features in a format they control.
Moah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
Why wasn’t PNG enough to replace jpeg?
ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 3 months ago
PNG is a lossless format, and hence results in fairly large file sized compared to compressed formats, so they’re solving different issues.
JPEG XL is capable of being either lossy or lossless, so it sorta replaces both JPEG and PNG
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
not enough elitists
r_deckard@lemmy.world 3 months ago
And JPEG2000 is what’s used in Digital Cinema Package (DCP) - that’s the file format used to distribute feature films. That’s not going away soon.
pineapplelover@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Does jpegxl work on firefox?
hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org 3 months ago
Only in Nightly and not by default (you need to enable it).
Aux@lemmynsfw.com 3 months ago
It doesn’t work anywhere because full support requires so much stuff that no browser can be compatible.
Hellinabucket@lemmy.world 3 months ago
This is why Google keeps getting caught up in monopoly lawsuits.
altima_neo@lemmy.zip 3 months ago
Modern Google is becoming the Microsoft of the 90s
Telorand@reddthat.com 3 months ago
And they’ll make eleventy bajillion dollars in the meantime, plenty of money to pay their inevitable punitive “fines.”
TeoTwawki@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Hdll old MSs penalty was givong free licenses in markets it never had a grip on, so its “lock 'em in!” model meant the “penalty” benefited them!
FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 3 months ago
Which is funny and said because Microsoft is also the Microsoft of the 90s.
nutsack@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Microsoft is still like this