The fairphone 4 doesnt jave
Comment on Fairbuds are Fairphone’s proof that we really could make better tiny gadgets
kadu@lemmy.world 2 months ago
There are indeed good aspects to this product.
But I won’t join the “Fair phone” circle jerk and give them the free publicity, because just like Apple and Samsung, they removed the headphone jack from their phones soon before the launch of these headphones, in other words, artificially creating the problem and need to sell you their expensive solution.
You don’t get to ride the “we are pro customer!” free publicity train while also wanting to be the next Apple.
d4f0@lemmy.world 2 months ago
kadu@lemmy.world 2 months ago
So? Their over ear Bluetooth headphones came out on Q1 2023. Two years developing a new category for your company sounds about right.
Plus, their phones are expected to be used for long, so if they wanted to push people towards Bluetooth they’d have to start early.
Plus, this is still irrelevant - how does the fact they screwed customers over in 2021 somehow make it better?
woelkchen@lemmy.world 2 months ago
So? Their over ear Bluetooth headphones came out on Q1 2023. Two years developing a new category for your company sounds about right.
So they first removed the headphone jack but intentionally didn’t launch a companion device because the customers would just wait for them “to sell you their expensive solution”?
the fact they screwed customers over in 2021
Wait, 2021 customers were not informed about that and got their headphone jacks taken away after already paying? They could not make an informed decision and were screwed over?
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 2 months ago
Yes and they sold shitty generic bluetooth earbuds that they pulled from the market a year and a half later with 0 support when they were almost ready to launch their Bluetooth headphones.
thisisbutaname@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
I bought the Fairphone 5 and yeah, I miss not having the jack and I see no reason to take it out
Damage@feddit.it 2 months ago
Cost. The Fairphone is already too expensive for what it offers.
thisisbutaname@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
I agree the price is pretty high for what it is, but I wonder how much adding a headphone jack would actually affect it.
hepasid851@lemy.lol 2 months ago
www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/…/SJ2-35853B-SMT-TR?…
here is a link to a headphone jack, which costs 47 cents each if you get 5k. they already have the added electronics to be able to send audio over usb-c, so it is pretty much just the cost of the jack itself at 47 cents.
amelia@feddit.de 2 months ago
They explain very thoroughly on their website why they did it:
kadu@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yep, same excuses as Apple.
Analogue connector too old, too big, hard to make modular. All proven false by a multitude of other devices.
Stull@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It might be false, but I think the real reason is that very few people care about a jackstick… I care, but I’m the only one I know, and I only ever hear a small group of people online talk about it being a big deal. In the end I don’t think too badly about that specific decision from any phone manufacturer.
PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Heck, I don’t even care about having an audio jack as long as there are two USB-C ports. I’m a down for a unified connector. There just needs to be enough ports for it.
ripcord@lemmy.world 2 months ago
In my case, lots of people I know care about it. And I definitely do.
But these are just anecdotes, and I haven’t seen real data.
I’m guessing the majority of people would prefer to have it, but don’t care enough that it’s a major factor for their phone. And the number that care at all continues to shrink. But we’re both just guessing.
amelia@feddit.de 2 months ago
Yeah, same here. It’s a pretty specific demand when bluetooth headphones have become really good and actually have a lot of advantages compared to wired ones. Also there is always the option to use a USB C dongle so it’s really not that big of a deal.
ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I don’t need another hole in my phone that does nothing but collect debris.
ripcord@lemmy.world 2 months ago
So - takes up too much space, is the main reason :)
I don’t care, still worth it to me. As long as I have the option, any phone I buy (including the one I bought last year) will have a 3.5mm jack.
bss03@infosec.pub 2 months ago
I “upgraded” to a new Pixel last year because I thought the battery on my old 4A was getting wonky (and I have not had good luck with doing battery replacements). At the time, I did not know (enough) about the Fairphone, and I could not find a new Pixel with an audio jack (maybe I didn’t look hard enough?).
I’d like to go back to having a jack. I do have one scenario where I want to use well-fitting BT buds, but I can do that on any phone. I want wired buds that I don’t have to charge, can switch between devices in 0.5 second, without interacting with any software, and don’t have misbehaving touch controls that trigger when I brush my long hair back behind my ear(s) or shoulder(s). In fact, I still have a set of completely dumb buds that I use for my work laptop that I’d love to be able to use with my phone – don’t need noise cancelling or controls of any kind. I really hope that I can find a phone with a jack next time I do an upgrade. I don’t care if it is thicker, I’m gonna stick on Otterbox (or similar) on it anyway.
I was also concerned about security, but full-power BT is fairly secure now. No one can “drive-by” and monitor or replace the audio; they have to get you during “initial” pairing.
FJW@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
I hated that too at the time, but I have to admit, that in practice this has not really turned into an issue basically ever: My headphones and earbuds are bluetooth anyways and I did get a usb-c to headphone adapter that I store with my earphone’s backup audio cable for the very rare case that I need it (I can count on one hand the instances for when that happened). And in those very few cases I wasn’t about to charge my phone anyways, which is the one argument for why you might want both.
So, I don’t know, maybe it really is time to move on. I will defnitely say that I’m not a big fan of analog cables, so maybe a more general move to USB-C for audio might be the right way to go in the first place?
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yeah I feel the same way. I didn’t get in on Bluetooth until I got Bluetooth hearing aids, but it’s just really convenient.
iopq@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Okay, but my phone has a jack and absolutely dog water sound quality. Because it has a jack it does not support the USB DAC which I use on my desktop.
Worst part is, the whole USB DAC is $12 including shipping and it has USB connector and 3.5mm, and an amp. They cheaped out on this part not only on the phone, but also on the motherboard. On my computer the amp is way too weak to drive my around ear headphones.
So if it’s a crap one maybe they shouldn’t even include it, since I’ll have to use a USB DAC to get perfectly transparent sound. The only good one I own is on my budget Acer Aspire laptop.
PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 2 months ago
LG phones used to come with a DAC. I still use mine as an MP3 player even though it’s not my main phone.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 months ago
All phones with a 3.5mm audio jack have a DAC. You can’t play digital audio without one somewhere along the chain and all audio going through a phone or PC is digital unless you’re picking up a radio signal or some other analog signal that’s being fed directly to the audio jack.
You probably mean it comes with a good DAC, since they aren’t all created equal.
A bit of a tangent, but I believe that’s why people considered Macs better for audio stuff, they probably used a better DAC than most motherboards come with or might have just added that pathway in general back when it wasn’t standard on most PC motherboards and your had to use a sound card if you wanted better audio than the PC speaker which was more of a synthesizer. They’d take a pitch and generate an analog wave at that frequency while a DAC uses a sample rate and series of amplitudes at that frequency to generate rich sound.
AlligatorBlizzard@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
My current phone is an LG G8 and I have no idea what I’m going to replace it with when it finally dies. I’m half considering seeing if one of the local repair shops can replace the battery on it because that’s what’s starting to go.
Honestly, I blame LG’s marketing team on the failure of their phone department. Hardly anyone knew about the built in DAC, and they should have been pushing that hard to the audiophiles.
BreakDecks@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
I understand people’s desire for a headphone port, but I really don’t understand the hate for devices that don’t have one. It would be one thing if they vendor-locked Bluetooth headphones so you had to use theirs, but it really just seems like a common sense move in a world where Bluetooth reigns supreme.
As long as a USB-C adapter still provides the same functionality, I really don’t see anyone’s choices being taken away. If it is one less physical port on the device that helps streamline the hardware, I’m all for it too.
And if it is a dealbreaker, you don’t have to buy a fairphone.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
The problem is that there are fewer and fewer options with a headphone jack. My current phone has one and I use it all the time.
Bluetooth sucks for a variety of reasons, such as:
I also like using bluetooth headphones sometimes, but having an option is good, and I don’t want to bring a dongle around everywhere.
BreakDecks@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Most Bluetooth headphones are encrypted with a key shared only by the headphones and the host device. Not sure why you think they aren’t private. Maybe really cheap or really old headphones might not be so secure, but the vast majority of Bluetooth headphones in use today absolutely are.
Charging and audio quality are legitimate concerns, but again, you still have a headphone port… It’s just part of the USB-C port on the bottom of your phone. A $5 adapter completely absolves you of having to use Bluetooth.
I really don’t see how this is a big enough deal to care about.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
They broadcast the ID and I think type of device. Yeah, the data sent between the devices is encrypted, but that’s not really an improvement over wired headphones since the signal is privacy by virtue of not being broadcast everywhere.
It’s not the price that’s the issue, but the convenience. I can’t change my phone while using the adapter, and I have to bring it along wherever I go. Why should I need an adapter for something that used to come standard?
What do I gain from not having a headphone jack? A slightly thinner phone due to slightly more space for the battery? My current phone has a headphone jack, and it’s no bigger than any other phone, and it has a larger battery than most. Better water resistance? I’ve never lost a phone due to water.
So I’ll flip it around, why do you not want a headphone jack? What about a micro-SD card?
My next phone will probably not have a headphone jack, and I’m annoyed just thinking about it.
blssflbreeze@lemmy.world 2 months ago
in response to bluetooth being private: cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=bluetoot…
also the adapters get lost and break before the headphones usually do (and cost about as much as a cheap pair of headphones)
Vaderhoff@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Honestly most of these points don’t make a whole lot sense, yet these are the arguments I see every time wireless ear buds pop up in any conversation. Phones by nature are not private, and honestly, who is trying to intercept Bluetooth close to you anyways? Majority of what they would likely get is “oh another person listening to music or tiktok”. I haven’t charged my 3 year old $50 Bluetooth buds in weeks, and they are still sitting at great battery health. Proper research and care goes a long way, though the option to have replacement batteries is def a plus. And if you’re going on long road trips, just pack an adapter and wired headphones if you’re that conscious. What are you doing with your phone that you need top-tier audio quality on the go? Just seems like a very very niche market.
windpunch@feddit.de 2 months ago
I jut want to address the point with the battery.
To be fair, the charging cases (if we talk about earbuds) are a good idea.
That said, with wired headphones I need to charge one device less, don’t have to worry about battery care (no matter how much effort you consider this, it’s zero with wired) and it’s no factor for the longevity of the device.
Also this:
So I need another pair of headphones and an apdapter vs just one pair of headphones?
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Bluetooth data is encrypted, that’s not what I’m worried about. I’m more concerned about tracking.
Bluetooth transmits a unique ID, which can be picked up by any curious individual. That’s pretty much how “Find my Droid” and “Find my iPhone” work, and providing even more devices to track isn’t great. I can turn off the Bluetooth in my phone and use wired headphones to avoid it, and removing the jack makes that more annoying.
Why not? I often listen to music or whatever when exercising, riding transit, or doing yardwork. Having good sounding headphones is really nice.
Audio jacks cost almost nothing, and I can buy them for <$1 each from Amazon, less if I buy in bulk. So it’s not a cost savings, and they’re not particularly big, so why do they need to remove it?
Even if you don’t care about privacy or audio quality, it’s just really convenient to be able to use any cheap earbuds if you lose your nicer pair when on vacation or whatever. Why not have the option? Why force people to use an adapter?
I also have Bluetooth headphones (bone conduction for listening to audiobooks on my bike), yet I still prefer the wired headphones around the house, on walks, and pretty much everywhere else.
Damage@feddit.it 2 months ago
Get an USB c dongle and leave it on the cord then… I too wish we still had jacks, but that battle’s lost, and attacking the only someone conscientious phone manufacturer for following trends set by bigger companies is myopic. They do what they must to compete, it’s not like they’re drowning in money.
Plopp@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Even USB-C dongles suck.
There are two types: ones that passes through the analog audio signal from the phone’s internal DAC, and ones that have a built in DAC and pretty much acts as external USB sound card. You need to know which type your phone supports and which type it is you’re buying.
If it’s the type that has a built-in DAC (which I think is the most common but I might be wrong) they are fury-inducing absolute monstrous pains in the ass if there’s the slightest glitch in the USB connection. Because it’s like unplugging the audio device. Playback just stops for seemingly no reason and it doesn’t resume once the connection is good again.
My solution is wired headphones plugged in to a small BT receiver I keep in my pocket. That way I get both an annoying cable and shitty audio quality lol.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Who said I’m attacking anyone? I’m not saying “don’t buy a Fairphone because it doesn’t have a headphone jack,” I’m saying phone manufacturers like Fairphone should include a headphone jack.
How is removing a headphone jack helping them compete? They cost well under $1 each on Amazon for 10, and much cheaper in bulk. The trickier part is waterproofing it, so they could just sell two models, one without the jack with a high waterproof rating, and one with the jack. All that would need to change is the case.
sarmale@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
For me the slight lag is the worst, I can stand charging them and cant notice the lower audio quality but the lag is so annoying, For music they are good, bot not for things you interact with
stoly@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I’m with you. The hate has always seemed a bit like a first world problem.
octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
I used up all my hate when Apple did it. I still think Apple lied about their reasoning (waterproofing and space), which pisses me off more than the other complaints, many of which I also agree with.
However, at this point a big portion of the market has adjusted and accepted (to varying degrees), and that first change is so far in the past that I don’t know that I can muster up a lot of hate for mfrs who are taking away headphone jacks today when instead of upending the market they are following market trends.
Having said that, I’d be willing to bet that a larger than typical percentage of Fairphone purchases would really like to have a headphone jack.
blssflbreeze@lemmy.world 2 months ago
it’s partially because we are running out of options that have the headphone jack, and the only reason to remove them is to boost sales of more expensive bluetooth sets. Bluetooth really doesn’t reign supreme yet because wired headphones are still more convenient, cheaper to produce, and last longer than their bluetooth counterparts. the only reason it’s so common is because it keeps getting removed from phones so people don’t have a choice in the matter.
ECB@feddit.de 2 months ago
I think they mean “reign supreme” in the sense that, given the choice, most people these days would choose the bluetooth anyways.
Its just so nice to not have a cord…
windpunch@feddit.de 2 months ago
I like to have the choice. And I choose not having to buy another device.
We must think of different aspects then.
daltotron@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Mostly just because it’s kind of seen as a higher profile example of mobile phone manufacturers colluding and creating totally unnecessary changes in the market because they’re incapable of actual innovation. The reason people are mad, basically, is because there was no reason to remove the headphone jack. I haven’t seen a reasonable argument for it’s removal, really, or the removal of most of the other used-to-be-standard features on smartphones.
nyctre@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Does that include fairphone’s explanation for the removal of the headphone jack? Cause to me it sounds reasonable. It could be bs, sure, but I don’t think it is.