Remember: Pretty much every Lemmy instance is run by volunteers that don’t have legal departments
One lawsuit can shut them down.
Comment on Lemmy.world seems to have banned the largest piracy community on Lemmy.
ptz@dubvee.org 6 months ago
Lemmy world:
- Runs the largest Lemmy instance, for free, for your enjoyment.
- Accepts all liability for content
- Posts a transparent TOS
- Lists which countries’ governing laws apply to it
- Gave a valid reason for the removal of those communities in the modlog
Users, not even on Lemmy World:
I’m not in the loop, but I would imagine there was a letter or email to them or their service provider that prompted that.
Remember: Pretty much every Lemmy instance is run by volunteers that don’t have legal departments.
wintermute_oregon@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Never understood people who don’t get this.
As a person who is part of open source communities, on various chairs and donates, the money is extremely slim, and the people involved just want to build cool things.
We are busy trying to keep the lights on for hundreds of thousands of people can enjoy this service. And if a small group of troublemakers force us to get a strong legal threat, we aren’t risking the the project’s survival.
Especially when we don’t know the troublemakers, don’t have any connection with them, they don’t contribute to the platform, etc.
VinesNFluff@pawb.social 6 months ago
Yeah like.
This isn’t reddit dot com opaquely purging your favourite subreddit for some unspecific corporate reason.
The admins stated quite clearly why they are blocking it (“we don’t want trouble, and our TOS lay out that we’ll defed from illegal shit”), and it is their instance. And unlike Reddit – The community is still THERE in its home server. It has not been burninated. – You can just. Make an account elsewhere. It’s free. It takes less than 5 minutes. You can even KEEP your LW account for other communities.
Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Did the admins state anything? I thought the issue here is that LW previously did something without an announcement, undid it and promised to communicate before doing something like that again, and now people are saying they haven’t communicated this time.
That’s the real issue, not the fact that it was defederated.
antidote101@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Are you telling me Reddit is free to have a Piracy sub, but Lemmy isn’t?
What’s the point of Lemmy if Reddit is more free?
ptz@dubvee.org 6 months ago
Reddit is a company that has a legal department (e.g. has lawyers on retainer). Lemmy World is run by volunteers and donations.
What’s the point of Lemmy if Reddit is more free?
That’s such a broad question that I’m not even going to bother. Instead, I’ll answer with the same question as when “states’ rights” are brought up:
“Free to do what, exactly?”
lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 6 months ago
When you receive a takedown / DMCA / whatever legal mumbo-jumbo applies to your jurisdiction, you have two choices:
Comply immediately Fight it in court
You actually have a third option: file a DMCA Counternotice. If my reading is correct, the very act of filing the counternotice allows you to keep the content up unless the original filer “insists” (it’s the mechanism against “DMCA trolling”). DMCAis not a jail-free card to erase content from the internet.
ptz@dubvee.org 6 months ago
Possibly, but the DMCA is strictly a US thing. The comply or fight are the only two somewhat universal options.
Other countries have other similar laws, though. LW’s TOS says they’re under legal jurisdiction of Finland, The Netherlands, and Germany. Not sure what their laws are like, but Germany seems pretty strict about it.
imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
You seem to be confusing Lemmy.world with Lemmy as a whole. Lemmy is free to be used for anything by anyone.
Lemmy.world is the largest and most mainstream Lemmy server, so they need to be especially careful about legal issues. If lemmy.world gets taken down due to mirroring content hosted on lemmy.dbzer0.com, the whole network would partially collapse because of how many users and communities are hosted on lemmy.world.
It’s not even close to worth the risk. This is how federation is supposed to work.
tryptaminev@feddit.de 6 months ago
Isnt the federations key idea to avoid collapse if any single instance it failing? This sounds like the system has become too centralized around lemmy.world
imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
It’s definitely not ideal to be this centralized around lemmy.world. But it’s also nearly impossible to prevent some amount of centralization, especially at our current size. With only 50k active users, we don’t have enough people to sustain activity if things were more spread out.
It’s still so early. If we get to 500k or 5M users, things will naturally get way more decentralized. A year ago, about 70-80% of the whole network was basically centralized on lemmy.ml. I dont have the exact numbers because I wasn’t here yet, but looking back at the stats there were only a few thousand active users at that time and the vast majority were on lemmy.ml
Now, only about 40% of the network is on lemmy.world (20k/50k users). I just think there are natural incentives that will continue to push us in the direction of decentralization, but we haven’t quite reached the tipping point where that starts to happen.
Blaze@dormi.zone 6 months ago
It definitely has. Hopefully this decision will nudge people into other instances.
Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
[deleted]imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
I’m not from lemmy.world, I’m from sh.itjust.works. We have never banned you at all. And I understand your argument.
But it’s not our place to decide what the lemmy.world admins do with their server. It also doesn’t affect you personally at all. It’s not like they defederated your server, it only affects their users who were subscribed to that community, and they can always just make an account on another server.
bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social 6 months ago
the dbzer0 piracy community has been around much longer than most of the users here. they spun up when they saw the writing on the wall, and they permit things that would not be permitted on reddit. and, it seems, they permit things that are not permitted on .world.
but the instance is still there. the community is still there.
and you can leave .world, join an instance that hasn't banned !piracy, and keep right on going.
NotAtWork@startrek.website 6 months ago
You don’t even need to leave .world, you can subscribe to communities on other instances.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Reddit’s piracy community doesn’t discuss the practical stuff like dbzero’s does
assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Reddit has corporate lawyers. Lemmy does not.
Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 6 months ago
You know the meme where Bender goes, “I’ll do my own thing, with Blackjack and hookers!”
Lemme provides that. Servers are managed by different groups and you can absolutely make your own, with blackjacks and hookers.
GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk 6 months ago
This is precisely it.
One other point is, some instance want to focus on certain things, and take the risks, where others don’t.
Our community (feddit.uk)[feddit.uk] doesn’t do nsfw, because it’s not worth the headache for what our main focus is.
The guy running lemmynsfw on the other hand, is enthusiastically embracing the challenges involved, and more power to him!And in the end, it works. We handle Mr. Brains Pork Balls, they can handle…other balls.
ptz@dubvee.org 6 months ago
Our community feddit.uk doesn’t do nsfw, because it’s not worth the headache for what our main focus is.
Same for my instance and for the same reasons. We have nothing against that, just, like you said, not our focus nor worth the headache.
And in the end, it works. We handle Mr. Brains Pork Balls, they can handle…other balls.
🤣
SorteKanin@feddit.dk 6 months ago
I would imagine there was a letter or email to them or their service provider that prompted that and likely named those communities specifically
What I’m curious about is, why haven’t lemmy.dbzer0.com received those takedown messages? Wouldn’t it make more sense to go to the source instead of just another instance hosting the content but not actually “responsible” for the content, so to speak? Or maybe they have?
Also curious why lemmy.world has still not made a statement about this or even acknowledged it (at least I haven’t seen any acknowledgement so far). Removing the communities from their instance is of course totally within their power and right, but this isn’t exactly the most transparent way to do it.
ptz@dubvee.org 6 months ago
What I’m curious about is, why haven’t lemmy.dbzer0.com received those takedown messages? Wouldn’t it make more sense to go to the source instead of just another instance hosting the content but not actually “responsible” for the content, so to speak? Or maybe they have?
So many unknowns. Until LW makes an announcement, it’s all speculation. I haven’t seen any mention from db0 about takedowns, etc, but those may just be background noise for him. lol
NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Db0 seems confused based on their comments about this situation over on the piracy community. Said there was zero notice or communication from LW ahead of time
ptz@dubvee.org 6 months ago
I don’t know the inner politics of it, but I did check lemmy.world/instances and db0 wasn’t on the “blocked” list. AFAIK, based on their modlog, just those two communities were blocked (unless that’s changed since i last looked)
ben_dover@lemmy.world 6 months ago
regarding your first question - they usually go after the big fish first. dbzer0 might still be flying under the radar, and also might be ina different jurisdiction where the specific plaintiff can’t go after them, or where it’s harder for them to do so
satxdude@lemm.ee 6 months ago
The thing that gets me is the quote in the OP from last time this happened. It has been +12 hours of silence when you said last time you’d have this discussion BEFORE. Maybe it’s for legal reasons but you’d think they’d have said well, something.
sramder@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The point was transparency, don’t try to distract from the issue.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world 6 months ago
“The cloud is just other people’s computers” - it’s an inconvenient fact that those computers are real, physical objects subject to oversight from real, physical law enforcement.
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 6 months ago
“but it’s not my computer, so you should be willing to host any of it”