They do AA in Germany? I thought that pseudo science was just an American thing.
Comment on It's almost impossible to deny being an alcoholic without sounding like an alcoholic
Wirrvogel@feddit.de 11 months ago
Not so funny when it actually happens to you:
Because of really bad experiences with alcoholics as a child, I am afraid of people who drink. My psychologist and my doctor wrote that down.
When I became seriously ill and could no longer work in my old job, I had to retrain. To do this, you have to go to the German employment office and get an assessment of your strengths and weaknesses, including what your doctor and therapist have to say.
They read the paper from my doctor and my psychologist, but just skimmed over the words and decided that because the word “alcoholic” was there, I must be the alcoholic. They told me that I could get paid retraining and benefits, but only if I attended a therapy group for alcoholics once a week - me, who is afraid of alcoholics because of the abuse I suffered as a child. … I immediately started crying and swore that I had no problem with alcohol, only with alcoholics!
It took 6 months to get someone at the job centre to actually read the papers word for word to find out that me saying “I’m not an alcoholic” was not me being an alcoholic in denial. I got a half-assed apology and my retraining 6 months after I could have started it because of this. Not to mention that every time I refused to go to AA meetings they threatened to take away my benefits and I was in such a bad mental state that I probably would have killed myself without the help of my family. Oh, and my family who tried to intervene were labelled as co-alcoholics.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 11 months ago
JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Group therapy is pseudo-science?
abbotsbury@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Others have mentioned it, but to elaborate, Alcoholics Anonymous is not merely sitting in a circle and sharing your problems, but a belief system which requires you to submit to a higher power to move forward.
medusa@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Knew a guy who insisted he wasn’t addicted, but he can’t go a day without attending an AA meeting. 40 years, non stop. Even when in other countries for work, he finds them. Left his own daughters wedding dinner to make it to one.
He runs his own chapter where he lives. He’s had people follow the steps, sure, but some don’t. No matter how successful the latter are, he tears them apart for “not doing it right” and has turned his back on them for not following how he did it.
wolfshadowheart@slrpnk.net 11 months ago
That’s 12 step. Not all AA is 12 step.
explodicle@local106.com 11 months ago
I assume they mean this?
In the past, some critics have criticized 12-step programs as pseudoscientific and “a cult that relies on God as the mechanism of action”. Until recently, ethical and operational issues had prevented robust randomized controlled trials from being conducted comparing 12-step programs directly to other approaches. More recent studies employing randomized and blinded trials have shown 12-step programs provide similar benefit compared to motivational enhancement therapy (MET) and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), and were more effective in producing continuous abstinence and remission compared to these approaches.
maryjayjay@lemmy.world 11 months ago
You don’t know about AA, do you?
JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I know they get preachy but you can ignore that, many alcoholics get help from them without joining the cult of Christianity
Socsa@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
No, just AA
IHadTwoCows@lemm.ee 11 months ago
There is no greater fucking idiot than the one who thinks a social gathering for discussion is subject to the rules of double-blind scientific testing. Watching some arrogant fucking shithead attempting to slander 12-stop programs as “not scientific” is hilarious because OF COURSE IT ISN’T SCIENTIFIC!! IT MAKES NO CLAIMS TO BE.
CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 11 months ago
That’s all fine and dandy until you get court ordered to attend these meetings as if it were a scientifically proven method of quitting drinking. It’d be like doing something bad and then being court ordered to attend church so that you can “gain a moral compass.”
IHadTwoCows@lemm.ee 11 months ago
That I agree with…but that’s a criminal justice problem
Crashumbc@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Out of curiosity, where are people being remanded to AA specifically?
Having some experience in those circles. Courts often order “recovery programs” not AA, usually some form outpatient/inpatient group therapy, run by licensed therapists.
Scubus@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
It makes no claims to be scientific… so it’s measurably worthless?
You seem to be agreeing my dude
IHadTwoCows@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Nope. It works for those it works for. It is social, not scientific. There is no possible way to measure it’s effectiveness because you can’t monitor the entire lives of everyone who has wandered into a meeting. For myself, I had no intention of quitting but went ro a meeting because a feiend asked me to. I never drank again after my very first meeting in 2004. Many, many others had relapse repeatedly. Others did not. But there is no way to know what the success rate is because nobody knows who we are or if we’ll ever drink again before we die. It is a program of suggestion only, with no requirements.
Crackhappy@lemmy.world 11 months ago
My lord that is absolutely bonkers and I am so sorry for what you had to go through!
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
That is terrible and I am so sorry.