Comment on FBI Labels Anti-Fascists and Anti-Racists as Violent Extremists

STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

• bassomitron@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I think there’s more nuance on the topic than you’re implying. While there’s no actual group called antifa, there are plenty of groups who oppose far right ideology (i.e. anti-fascist/antifa). Some of these groups have definitely become heavily armed and radicalized. I don’t support fascists, but I also don’t support radicalized zealots of any creed. Does that make me a fascist?

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  • blackbelt352@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    While I’d prefer peaceful resolutions to our problems, I fully understand why left leaning groups are becoming more radicalized. There is little compromise with the theocrats who want to eliminate or subjugate various minority and underrepresented groups within our society, continually hand more and more power to corporations, wholeheartedly believe the end of days is coming once Israel fully takes control of the holy land, and will scream “Second Amendment” and “Crisis Actors” every time kids are killed in school shootings. They violently stormed the US Capitol many of whole had intent to kill Senators and Representatives.

    There is no compromise or peaceful resolution with people who want to hurt you or worse because their pastor said you’re a demonic sinner who must be cleansed from the earth.

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    • winterayars@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yeah those fuckers want to kill me for even existing, if i armed up it would be entirely to defend myself.

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      • Caculon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        So your saying your extremely interested in staying alive? Gotcha!

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  • masquenox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Does that make me a fascist?

    No, it makes you a person that probably won’t do squat to stop fascists.

    It’s no coincidence wthat it’s only radicals that show up to physically confront fascists while the so-called “enlightened centrists” do nothing but heckle from the sidelines.

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    • bassomitron@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      As someone who’s been in several combat zones with the US military (honorably discharged 10 years ago), I can safely say I do not want my backyard turning into one. So pardon me while I wait for all peaceful options to be utterly exhausted before getting gun-happy and LARPing with others in fatigues while shouting for armed resistance.

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      • masquenox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Nobody’s asking you to break out the claymore mines just yet… it’s the fascists that are escalating the lethality, not the “scary radical left” opposing them.

        It’s usually a good idea to try and stop the fash before they march down your street… by the time they do, the politicians might just have decided to hand them the keys to the tanks - which they will, eventually.

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      • CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        My stance on Jan 6 was had it been successful and Trump was installed as president, it would have been up to people like you to actually resist the new tyrannical government.

        Because at that point, democracy was usurped and the necessary peace transfer of power was ignored for a violent insurrection.

        The problem is that J6 was a test run. It was not successful because people with morals, many of whom were registered Republicans, stood firm and said this isn’t right. Many of these people have been replaced over the last three years to make stealing an election easier at a state level so that they won’t need to steal it at the federal level.

        I’m not saying there aren’t peaceful options. But one side has already decided that peace is not an option. They showed that they will have their form of government, by force if necessary.

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      • TheTetrapod@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Downvoted because veteran

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    • STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yup. Or when anyone tries to do anything they will just come up with reasons why it’s wrong.

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      • masquenox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The media was quick to forget that they were literally trying to criminalize the wearing of masks before Covid hit because “Antifa Scary.”

        So, yeah.

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    • 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      They are dropping the “good people on both sides” banger

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  • echutaa@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Maybe with another organization you would have a point, but in the case of the FBI which has been known to aid and recruit fascists I don’t see this holding any water.

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    • Blamemeta@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I think you’re thinking of the CIA.

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      • masquenox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Why? You think the FBI is (somehow) not serving the interests of a fundamentally white supremacist empire?

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  • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Radicals aren’t the same as extremists. And that is an important distinction to understand when dealing with politics. Being armed and willing to defend yourself isn’t an act of extremism. Being violent towards violent fascists isn’t extremism. It’s community defense. When you break down politics into it’s most base element, it’s about the distribution of the legitimate use of violence. Understanding and working within that framework isn’t extremism, it’s politics 101. Philosophy Tube has a good video on this in relation to fascism. Skip to ~20 mins in for the violence bit.

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  • negativeyoda@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The problem is that letting fascist types run rampant and hoping they’ll just go away historically doesn’t tend to work out well.

    I live in Portland. Up until 2021 or so fascists, period boys, Patriot prayer, etc. All ran rampant in cahoots with local law enforcement. People were menaced, paintballed, attacked and all that. It sucked. The sniveling mayor begged those groups not to come in (they’re never local) and act like that. Shockingly they did anyway.

    Portland fought back

    It was unpleasant, but it worked. Those assholes haven’t tried to have their gatherings here in a couple of years. Self described antifa groups are still on edge but have largely diminished in activity. You don’t see antifa rallies designed to menace going out to the surrounding small towns where those assholes largely come from. Unless you’re sporting some obviously fash flair pretty much everyone gets left alone in town.

    Both sides are not the same

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    • a_wild_mimic_appears@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      That was a good read, tyvm

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  • ArbiterXero@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    So would you label “maga” as heavily armed and radicalised?

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    • MxM111@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      If you read the article, FBI labeled them too.

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      • ArbiterXero@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Sure, but I was curious whether the person I was replying to at least applied their standard across the board

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    • masquenox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      So would you label “maga” as heavily armed and radicalised extremified?

      FTFY.

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  • MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    i think you should be quiet.

    businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-32…

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  • rchive@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    For most of Lemmy, yes, that makes you a fascist.

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  • 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Well, you know *gestures vaguely at all the far-right stuff going on in the United States"

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  • pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yeah, actually, it kinda does.

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• JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  A group can be right and also be violent and extremist.

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  • negativeyoda@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Not untrue, but antifa in general would cease to exist if fascists stopped coming to cities to menace people

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  • explodicle@local106.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    In this context they’re using “extremist” to mean “goes too far”.

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    • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Do they? It didn’t really seem like a value judgment to me.

      But you can also be right and go to far. I don’t know if these groups do go to far, but nuclear annihilation for example would definitely be too far.

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      • explodicle@local106.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Yes, they do.

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      • explodicle@local106.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        In that case they’d be right about just the problem, but not right in their entire position which includes a solution. Nobody who thinks we should nuke the world for anything is right.

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• chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Isn’t their whole thing arguing that terrorist tactics are justified, helpful and necessary? Every time I see antifa supporters talking online that’s the thrust of the discussion. What is the case for them not being a terrorist group?

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  • masquenox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Oooh… fascists are afraid of scawy antifa - that must mean antifa must be terrorists.

    Good job demonstrating how much moral weight you ascribe to the feelings of fascists, Clyde.

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    • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’m not sure what any of this has to do with what I said. I’m not talking about moral weight or feelings, and I’m not saying ‘terrorist’ pejoratively. It’s a word, it means something. I don’t think its meaning strictly depends on who is in the right, it’s more about goals and methods. What do you think it means?

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      • masquenox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Who has antifa (supposedly) “terrorized,” Clyde?

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• c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Only if you’re dumb enough to just assume whatever a group titles themselves actually reflects their beliefs.

  Do you think the Nazis were socialist? How about the Soviets?

  You can call yourself whatever you want, if your group is anti fascist and acts in an authoritarian manner, then you’re the same thing with a different economic outlook.

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  • Mandarbmax@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yes but antifa is anti fascist.

    Calling antifa a terrorist organization because in another universe an organization sharing the name could be bad is like banning ice cream because it could be made out of maggots.

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    • c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yes but antifa is anti fascist.

      Damn, it’s like you didn’t even understand literally my entire comment.

      Capitalist authoritarianism and socialist/communist authoritarianism are both the same thing, using terms like fascism to pretend it’s different is the problem.

      If you use authoritarian means to get your way you are only different from fascism economically. If you aren’t authoritarian then you’re not going to support any group regardless of what they refer to themselves as or what they consider the opposition to be called.

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      • Mandarbmax@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        An anarchist group is authoritarian? What are you smoking.

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• prole@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I wonder if my profile pic puts me on that list.

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  • FireTower@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The use or sharing of these symbols or phrases alone should not independently be considered evidence of AVE presence or affiliation or serve as an indicator of illegal activity. -FBI, in the document referenced.

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    • prole@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yes, I read what the FBI said. But there have been a million reasons not to 100% trust lose enforcement. I’ll take what they say with a grain of salt.

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• UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  But anti fascist are fascist. we must lock them up and …

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