A group can be right and also be violent and extremist.
Comment on FBI Labels Anti-Fascists and Anti-Racists as Violent Extremists
STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Labelling Antifa as a terrorist group is basically admitting you are a fascist.
JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
negativeyoda@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Not untrue, but antifa in general would cease to exist if fascists stopped coming to cities to menace people
explodicle@local106.com 10 months ago
In this context they’re using “extremist” to mean “goes too far”.
JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Do they? It didn’t really seem like a value judgment to me.
But you can also be right and go to far. I don’t know if these groups do go to far, but nuclear annihilation for example would definitely be too far.
explodicle@local106.com 10 months ago
In that case they’d be right about just the problem, but not right in their entire position which includes a solution. Nobody who thinks we should nuke the world for anything is right.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
Isn’t their whole thing arguing that terrorist tactics are justified, helpful and necessary? Every time I see antifa supporters talking online that’s the thrust of the discussion. What is the case for them not being a terrorist group?
masquenox@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Oooh… fascists are afraid of scawy antifa - that must mean antifa must be terrorists.
Good job demonstrating how much moral weight you ascribe to the feelings of fascists, Clyde.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
I’m not sure what any of this has to do with what I said. I’m not talking about moral weight or feelings, and I’m not saying ‘terrorist’ pejoratively. It’s a word, it means something. I don’t think its meaning strictly depends on who is in the right, it’s more about goals and methods. What do you think it means?
masquenox@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Who has antifa (supposedly) “terrorized,” Clyde?
c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Only if you’re dumb enough to just assume whatever a group titles themselves actually reflects their beliefs.
Do you think the Nazis were socialist? How about the Soviets?
You can call yourself whatever you want, if your group is anti fascist and acts in an authoritarian manner, then you’re the same thing with a different economic outlook.
Mandarbmax@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Yes but antifa is anti fascist.
Calling antifa a terrorist organization because in another universe an organization sharing the name could be bad is like banning ice cream because it could be made out of maggots.
c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Yes but antifa is anti fascist.
Damn, it’s like you didn’t even understand literally my entire comment.
Capitalist authoritarianism and socialist/communist authoritarianism are both the same thing, using terms like fascism to pretend it’s different is the problem.
If you use authoritarian means to get your way you are only different from fascism economically. If you aren’t authoritarian then you’re not going to support any group regardless of what they refer to themselves as or what they consider the opposition to be called.
Mandarbmax@lemmy.world 9 months ago
An anarchist group is authoritarian? What are you smoking.
prole@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
I wonder if my profile pic puts me on that list.
FireTower@lemmy.world 10 months ago
The use or sharing of these symbols or phrases alone should not independently be considered evidence of AVE presence or affiliation or serve as an indicator of illegal activity. -FBI, in the document referenced.
prole@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Yes, I read what the FBI said. But there have been a million reasons not to 100% trust lose enforcement. I’ll take what they say with a grain of salt.
UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 10 months ago
But anti fascist are fascist. we must lock them up and …
bassomitron@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I think there’s more nuance on the topic than you’re implying. While there’s no actual group called antifa, there are plenty of groups who oppose far right ideology (i.e. anti-fascist/antifa). Some of these groups have definitely become heavily armed and radicalized. I don’t support fascists, but I also don’t support radicalized zealots of any creed. Does that make me a fascist?
blackbelt352@lemmy.world 10 months ago
While I’d prefer peaceful resolutions to our problems, I fully understand why left leaning groups are becoming more radicalized. There is little compromise with the theocrats who want to eliminate or subjugate various minority and underrepresented groups within our society, continually hand more and more power to corporations, wholeheartedly believe the end of days is coming once Israel fully takes control of the holy land, and will scream “Second Amendment” and “Crisis Actors” every time kids are killed in school shootings. They violently stormed the US Capitol many of whole had intent to kill Senators and Representatives.
There is no compromise or peaceful resolution with people who want to hurt you or worse because their pastor said you’re a demonic sinner who must be cleansed from the earth.
winterayars@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Yeah those fuckers want to kill me for even existing, if i armed up it would be entirely to defend myself.
Caculon@lemmy.world 10 months ago
So your saying your extremely interested in staying alive? Gotcha!
masquenox@lemmy.world 10 months ago
No, it makes you a person that probably won’t do squat to stop fascists.
It’s no coincidence wthat it’s only radicals that show up to physically confront fascists while the so-called “enlightened centrists” do nothing but heckle from the sidelines.
bassomitron@lemmy.world 10 months ago
As someone who’s been in several combat zones with the US military (honorably discharged 10 years ago), I can safely say I do not want my backyard turning into one. So pardon me while I wait for all peaceful options to be utterly exhausted before getting gun-happy and LARPing with others in fatigues while shouting for armed resistance.
masquenox@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Nobody’s asking you to break out the claymore mines just yet… it’s the fascists that are escalating the lethality, not the “scary radical left” opposing them.
It’s usually a good idea to try and stop the fash before they march down your street… by the time they do, the politicians might just have decided to hand them the keys to the tanks - which they will, eventually.
CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world 10 months ago
My stance on Jan 6 was had it been successful and Trump was installed as president, it would have been up to people like you to actually resist the new tyrannical government.
Because at that point, democracy was usurped and the necessary peace transfer of power was ignored for a violent insurrection.
The problem is that J6 was a test run. It was not successful because people with morals, many of whom were registered Republicans, stood firm and said this isn’t right. Many of these people have been replaced over the last three years to make stealing an election easier at a state level so that they won’t need to steal it at the federal level.
I’m not saying there aren’t peaceful options. But one side has already decided that peace is not an option. They showed that they will have their form of government, by force if necessary.
TheTetrapod@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Downvoted because veteran
STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Yup. Or when anyone tries to do anything they will just come up with reasons why it’s wrong.
masquenox@lemmy.world 10 months ago
The media was quick to forget that they were literally trying to criminalize the wearing of masks before Covid hit because “Antifa Scary.”
So, yeah.
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 10 months ago
They are dropping the “good people on both sides” banger
echutaa@programming.dev 10 months ago
Maybe with another organization you would have a point, but in the case of the FBI which has been known to aid and recruit fascists I don’t see this holding any water.
Blamemeta@lemm.ee 10 months ago
I think you’re thinking of the CIA.
masquenox@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Why? You think the FBI is (somehow) not serving the interests of a fundamentally white supremacist empire?
BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Radicals aren’t the same as extremists. And that is an important distinction to understand when dealing with politics. Being armed and willing to defend yourself isn’t an act of extremism. Being violent towards violent fascists isn’t extremism. It’s community defense. When you break down politics into it’s most base element, it’s about the distribution of the legitimate use of violence. Understanding and working within that framework isn’t extremism, it’s politics 101. Philosophy Tube has a good video on this in relation to fascism. Skip to ~20 mins in for the violence bit.
negativeyoda@lemmy.world 10 months ago
The problem is that letting fascist types run rampant and hoping they’ll just go away historically doesn’t tend to work out well.
I live in Portland. Up until 2021 or so fascists, period boys, Patriot prayer, etc. All ran rampant in cahoots with local law enforcement. People were menaced, paintballed, attacked and all that. It sucked. The sniveling mayor begged those groups not to come in (they’re never local) and act like that. Shockingly they did anyway.
Portland fought back
It was unpleasant, but it worked. Those assholes haven’t tried to have their gatherings here in a couple of years. Self described antifa groups are still on edge but have largely diminished in activity. You don’t see antifa rallies designed to menace going out to the surrounding small towns where those assholes largely come from. Unless you’re sporting some obviously fash flair pretty much everyone gets left alone in town.
Both sides are not the same
a_wild_mimic_appears@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
That was a good read, tyvm
ArbiterXero@lemmy.world 10 months ago
So would you label “maga” as heavily armed and radicalised?
MxM111@kbin.social 10 months ago
If you read the article, FBI labeled them too.
ArbiterXero@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Sure, but I was curious whether the person I was replying to at least applied their standard across the board
masquenox@lemmy.world 10 months ago
FTFY.
MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com 10 months ago
i think you should be quiet.
businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-32…
rchive@lemm.ee 10 months ago
For most of Lemmy, yes, that makes you a fascist.
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 10 months ago
Well, you know *gestures vaguely at all the far-right stuff going on in the United States"
pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yeah, actually, it kinda does.