Comment on The Web is Going to Die

Eldritch@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The only solace I take in the enshittification of the web and the resulting rise in prices, is that we might see (be forced into) a return the small web and an escape from the stranglehold that big tech and social media has had on us for the last 15 years.

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  • gary@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I see a lot of potential for it to push people back to the small web too. Lots of people becoming interested in personal blogs lately, decentralized social media, the whole indie web movement, etc.

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    • mesamunefire@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Just started mine! In plain html/txt. Just for fun. Eventually get rss up and running.

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      • gary@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Hell yeah! I've been blogging for a couple years but I just use Micro.blog. I'd like to switch to something completely self hosted one of these days though.

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      • cubism_pitta@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I got 1gbps internet (symmetrical) and a raspberry pi cluster… running my own Wordpress never made more sense… AND that botch should scale!

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    • fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I’ve been seeing a slow but steady movement that direction too

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    • architect@thelemmy.club ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You got links? Ive been working on something that fits right into this, too. It’s time, y’all.

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  • Eldritch@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Definitely. The conditions that created this version of the web have been gone for some time now. We've gone from connections that were temporarily and required hours to download a few minutes of postage stamp sized video. To always on connections capable of streaming multiple HD streams faster than real time in both directions.

    For my part I'm also looking in to purchasing and trying to set up a small Adhoc mesh Halow network and running a few services on it for myself and any others in the neighborhood that are interested. A small, free (after the hardware) anarchist wireless network. 16mbps can do a lot with simple services, etc.Plus, if a number of people in the area decided to adopt and contribute more nodes to the mesh, you could go faster still.

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    • shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      That sounds like a fantastic way to go. You might also look at meshtastic.

      It’s a much different use case, being for text messaging and stuff like that only. But, while it may be low bandwidth, it’s still incredibly interesting.

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      • mesamunefire@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        https://reticulum.network/ is also pretty good for small info packets. Does a LOT more than meshtastic…but its VERY difficult to set up. Or at least it was for me.

        Its a pipe dream but having small internet without a major ISP would be fantastic. But it will never happen as it is. Friends are thinking of creating a meshnet though just for fun.

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      • TheMadCodger@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I jumped on Meshtastic but found it got too congested with noise in a medium-sized city making it difficult to get much out there. Switched to Meshcore and have had a much better time communicating. Seattle’s full on made it equivalent to SMS, which makes me jealous. But YMMV 🤷🏼‍♂️

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      • Eldritch@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Yes, the bandwidth would be the damper there. It's great for transmitting just a little bit of data, long distances. But for any sort of bigger data we transmit regularly on phones and desktop. It becomes unfeasible, even low resolution images.It definitely has a range benefit, though that's for sure.I think fellow Missourian Jeff Geerling had a video out a while back where he talked about using it to contact people below his flight on the way to open sauce.

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  • docus@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Back to dial up internet and BBS

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• masterofn001@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos

  The 90-minute live demonstration featured the introduction of a complete computer hardware and software system called the oN-Line System or, more commonly, NLS, which demonstrated for the first time many of the fundamental elements of modern personal computing, including windows, hypertext, graphics, efficient navigation and command input, video conferencing, the computer mouse, word processing, dynamic file linking, revision control, and a collaborative real-time editor.

  In 1968

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• tal@olio.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  How many of you out there are browsing the web using Gofer?

  Gopher predated the Web.

  I do agree that there have been pretty major changes in the way websites worked, though. I’m not hand-coding pages using a very light, Markdown-like syntax with <em></em>, for example.

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  • jj4211@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    <blink>Welcome to my web page under construction</blink>

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  • Eldritch@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    That depends on how you define the web. If you only call the web the web when it was named the web and not what it was before it was named the web. Then yes you're correct that was before the web. The question is, is that a semantic or significant difference? ARPANET was still a web of interconnected systems. For an old goober like myself.who was using FidoNet net back in the mid 80s. And the actual internet in the late 80s, early 90s. I definitely remember Gophering on the Internet. Plenty of places still maintained gopher directories till the mid 90s.

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    • Krudler@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      BBS ARE THE WEB GUYS

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      • ms_lane@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The community noticeboard at the general store is the web! /s

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    • tal@olio.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      That depends on how you define the web

      Wikipedia:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol)

      The Gopher protocol (/ˈɡoʊfər/ ⓘ) is a communication protocol designed for distributing, searching, and retrieving documents in Internet Protocol networks. The design of the Gopher protocol and user interface is menu-driven, and presented an alternative to the World Wide Web in its early stages, but ultimately fell into disfavor, yielding to Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP). The Gopher ecosystem is often regarded as the effective predecessor of the World Wide Web.[1]

      gopher.floodgap.com is one of the last running Gopher servers, was the one that I usually used as a starting point when firing up a gopher client. It has a Web gateway up:

      https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/

      Gopher is a well-known information access protocol that predates the World Wide Web, developed at the University of Minnesota during the early 1990s. What is Gopher? (Gopher-hosted, via the Public Proxy)

      This proxy is for Gopher resources only – using it to access websites won’t work and is logged!

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      • frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        This has been mangled up by history. The important parts of the World Wide Web are having hypertext (basically links inside the document to other documents) and being networked (those links can take you to a completely different server). Apple’s Hypercard had hypertext, but it wasn’t networked. Usenet was networked, but had no hypertext.

        This is laid out in Tim Berners-Lee’s original 1989 proposal for the web while he was at CERN:

        www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html

        Gopher has all the qualities he was talking about. Gopher was a different kind of World Wide Web. We decided against that particular route, and for mostly good reasons, IMO.

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• b_tr3e@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Gopher was not the original protocol of the web but an alternative to HTTP/hypertext. It didn’t get the same traction, however, and has practically been dead for decades.

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• tabular@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Why Gofer when Gemini?

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• Aatube@kbin.melroy.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I sympathize, but Gopher is designed against hypertext (inline links in text)

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  • Eldritch@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I would argue that's not quite correct. You can absolutely transfer HTML files over gopher, but you're not going to be viewing it in the gopher program.It was very much designed to be what most people would be more familiar with in concept as an FTP server today, almost. Pretty much all you could view in app were plain text files. and no links between. Everything else was a directory of files to be downloaded.

    Gemini is definitely a bit of an inbetween. It does allow for linking between documents, but otherwise keeps everything simple and small, much like Gopher did.

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    • Aatube@kbin.melroy.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I much prefer browsing the web instead of 2-clicking within each FTP path. (If you built a client to 2-click that for you then that's just the HTTP web with extra steps.)

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  • Jason2357@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Impossible? gopher://gopherpedia.com:70/1

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    • Aatube@kbin.melroy.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      on mobile rn, how well does that do inline links?

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      • Jason2357@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        It doesn’t at all. It’s just text content. They could have put all the links at the end as a menu I guess, but it doesnt even have that.

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• Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I still think the web took a wrong turn when NCSA Mosaic first stated supporting inline images.

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  • Eldritch@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Gemini space baby! What's old is new again.

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    • frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Meh.

      I converted my blog from WordPress to a static site generator using Gemini’s version of Markdown as the base format, and then hosted both HTTP and Gemini versions.

      I later took down the Gemini version. The web site remains as static HTML driven by (a variation of) Markdown. No cookies, no JS, limited CSS. Even took out some old YouTube <iframe> tags and converted them to straight links to videos. Doing it this way does everything anyone would want out of Gemini without having to use a specialized client.

      We should be promoting some kind of browser extension that flags a site as having no cookies and no JS.

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  • tal@olio.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I questioned Reddit doing so, and now we’ve got it on Lemmy. There are privacy issues unless your home instance is proxying images for you.

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• architect@thelemmy.club ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Fuck yes.

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