Your literally commenting using a Linux server right now. A vast majority of the fediverse is hosted on Linux systems.
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cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks agoInstall??
Mac guy, and I remember trying Linux inside Windows and installing it while using it. For someone with 30 years of experience with Windows, Linux was a fucking joke — as in the mockery it made of everything I knew about Windows. It felt like magic. It’s not very deep though — people need to realize Linux is still very much a project. macOS is a complete product, but it’s not free and it’s tied to proprietary hardware. Still, these days I see the choice between macOS and Linux. Windows doesn’t even make the ballot for me.
mesamunefire@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
PancakesCantKillMe@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The vast majority of the internet is hosted on Linux.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Server OS is in no way comparable to desktop OS…saying Linux is king of servers means nothing to users, because Linux is not even close to having any significant market share on desktop. Linux desktop still have tons of quirks and weirdness that needs to be fixed before it has a chance of mass adoption, not to mention the vast compatibility issues with especially corporate software.
Trail@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I encounter quicks and weirdnesses on the windows laptop for work, which won’t even fucking properly sleep or don’t fucking update by itself even after trying to stop it for a while, rather than on Linux.
Can you name any such quirks and annoyances on Linux specifically? Because I can give you plenty on windows, while Linux the past 10 years or so maintains my sanity.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Sleep mode that doesn’t work consistently, WiFi driver issues, printer driver issues, touchpad driver issues, several different wonky ways to install programs instead of just double-clicking an .exe and pressing “next-next-OK”, random shutdown of programs for no reason or error codes…the list goes on. And on topnof that, all the stuff that people are used to using that just doesn’t run on Linux at all.
Trail@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Which reminds me. I can’t even move the taskbar to the left of the screen anymore since windows 11 was forced upon me. Pffft.
prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
I love my Mac for development work, but the Mac window manager is more buggy than i3 window manager in Linux.
mesamunefire@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
And much less secure.
But yeah we use all three big OSes work. The OS should be the least important part of the machine honestly. Programs are what are important.
jjlinux@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Because Windows is so polished, flawless and frictionless, right? I don’t believe it will EVER be the “year of the Linux desktop” because that’s not even a thing, so I agree with you there. However, the one thing none of you Windows-defenders can’t argue with is the fact that an extremely large percentage of people that try Linux, after a while, end up forgetting all about windows and never come back.
You can argue all you want in terms of marketshare, but that’s all Windows has working for it. It’s not because it’s stable, or because it’s ‘user friendly’ and certainly not because it’s beautiful.
And it’s been years since using CLI is entirely optional, unless you break something catastrophically (short of a hardware failure, guess what, you’d need CLI to make this happen). You can do everything over GUI. In Windows, anything that is even remotely damaged turns into a fucking reinstall that usually takes hours, vs just reinstalling ANY Linux distro, while keeping your home partition intact, only because you’re bored and want to try something else, which takes around 15 minutes.
See how all your rant makes no sense at all? Once you’ve driven a Bentley, you’d be hard pressed to return to a Honda Civic.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
I use Mint on my daily driver laptop, and I’m not defending windows, but the fact that things are way less intuitive in Linux makes it less user friendly and not a good solution for non-techies. I mean, I have to use one of 3 different ways of installing something depending in what the dev kind of feels for, that’s insanely terrible UX.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
My what is literally commenting? My phone? My computer?
And yes, I’m aware a lot of highly technical people use Linux. This whole “next year will be the year of Linux on the desktop” is silly. We can talk for days about what highly specialised platforms use Linux. It doesn’t matter until Boomers are using it and not questioning. Which they have been for years since Android is mobile Linux.
Desktop anything is down, statistically, worldwide. I’ve been using computers for over 40 years. When I started, only nerds and geeks used them. The cool kids only used them when they had to, in computer/typing class… which was an elective when I was in school. It was never required. At some point, computers became cool. Then smartphones came out, and all of a sudden everyone’s running Linux (Android) or UNIX (iOS), only they don’t know it. They don’t need to know it. And now computers are suddenly not cool anymore, because it’s all about smartphones these days.
So it’s not a push for Linux (the kernel, Linux is a kernel, not an OS, Android, Arch, Gentoo, Fedora Core, Mint, Ubuntu and others are distributions that bundle the Linux kernel with other stuff), it’s a push for Linux on the desktop. But even that’s not good enough, it’s gotta be the command line. And Boomers are never gonna use the command line. Neither are kids. It’s a moving target that will never be reached. The original idea? Give Linux a market share? We did that 15 years ago. The only reason Windows has any market share left is some schools and businesses and governments use them. *nix has been the majority for over a decade now. But it’s never been “the year of Linux on the desktop.” *nix has been in the palm of everyone’s hands since 2007 (iPhone; Android was 2008, so close enough for Linux specifically). And 2008 was 17 years ago. Next year, there will be kids old enough to vote (in the US) who, for their entire lives, have existed in a world where *nix dominated.
misteloct@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
You can use Linux and literally not know what a command line is… Sounds like you were trying dual boot (complex a.f.). I absolutely get your frustration but you could also like, just buy a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed or pay someone to do it for you.
You’d have difficulty dual booting Windows and Mac, or mucking with Powershell in Windows. I’m curious to hear what you tried in Linux and if there isn’t an easier path for you.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
How is “installing Linux” not easy? Download Ubuntu and run it. They make it easy.
You mean Arch? You mean something where you have to build it yourself and use the command line? That’s not necessary to run Linux. Or to say you ran Linux. Sure, it might be more efficient, or it might be better at some things. But I have to ask where your goal post is if you say installing Linux is not easy. Ubuntu makes it easy and I imagine most of them do as well.
Or maybe I’ve just been using computers so long I take what I know for granted. I dunno, it’s easy for me.
I was a Mac user for maybe two months when a beta came out. With ease, I created a new partition, downloaded the beta, and ran a beta (of macOS Sonoma) in the partition. I dual booted on a MacBook Air, my first Mac, which I’d only had a couple months. Okay now granted, Mac is easy mode most of the time, but they made it real easy. Though I fully understand “the average user” wouldn’t know where to start, let alone have the thought that that could be done.
So, maybe I am the weird one. But it’s just normal to me. Just how I am.
kepix@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
thank god commenting on a linux server helps me with converting all the excel macros to libreoffice…oh wait.
don@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Linux was a fucking joke
What
It’s not very deep
the
It’s still very much a project
fuck, over?
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Ah, I knew someone would misread that. What I meant as “a fucking joke” was that it made a mockery of everything I thought I knew about Windows.
don@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Friend, that which makes a mockery is not the joke, because it creates the joke, which itself likely is not.
That which is made a mockery is the joke because it was made such by that which makes the mockery.
A thing or person can make of it/themself, but this doesn’t apply to your case.
In your case, Windows was made a mockery by Linux, thus Windows is a joke.
Also if you knew this was going to be misread, you could’ve edited your comment at any time to accurately reflect your meaning.
k0e3@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Nobody misread that. You miswrote it.
HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
“EVs don’t work in cold climates, I know because I tried an electric mower 20 years ago that didn’t work in the cold so I’ve ignored all development in the last 20 years”
Same fucking logic buddy.
rarsamx@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Tell me you haven’t used a Linux desktop recently without telling me.
“I remember”. Using that phrase tells me it wasn’t recently enough. And “using it inside windows” tells me you tried to fit a round peg into a square hole or that you don’t know what you are talking about.
You may be a MAC fan and that’s OK if that works for you, but I haven’t needed to use anything else but Linux since 2004 (initially there were always pickups, though) and I’ve been runing it without issues since probably 2010.
Soup@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They said that Linux is really good, and they are not wrong that for the regular person, who struggles with even the most basic IT shit, there still isn’t a full “finished” option for them, really. Power users and more savvy people grow the technology but it’s the masses who fund it and the masses need something reliable or at least a close enough friend who can help them.
rarsamx@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Again. Have you used Fedora, Mint, Ubuntu?
Regular people get help with basic stuff in windows All the time. That’s why there is a Geek Squad in best buy. That’s probably the only thing missing for the non technical Linux users.
If people are paying someone to “install” their printer, why would it be different with Linux.
In fact, in Linux they’d need less tech support as many windows users calls are for slowness, virus and obsolescence.
Soup@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
People like closed and predictable environments. The step is not to tell them to “get over it” but to instead show them carefully why things are safe. Also to be able to hand them a machine and go “here, it has Ubuntu” because, even though we know it’s easy, asking someone to put it on their computer is not goingnto happen.
Part of why people use Windows, too, is for compatibility. Why would someone go through all that just to end up not being able to use what they know? I’m not even saying they shouldn’t, and may the alternatives are actually better, but now it’s getting weird. And even asking them to pick a distro I mean which one do we decide is “the distro for the public”?
Again, I’m not saying people in this computer age not knowing how basic computer stuff works is a good thing. It is the reality however, and while it needs to change I’m not sure how to go about it.
IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
If people are paying someone to “install” their printer, why would it be different with Linux.
With printers spesifically I’d bet people don’t need to pay for support with Linux as much. Sure, there are models which just won’t work, but in general my experience is that printers are mostly plug’n’play with Linux.
A few months ago I did a helpdesk gig on one local small business. They consume a lot of paper due to requirements on their business and they have some fancy KonicaMinolta photocopier. They guys who installed the printer had struggled for hours to get that thing to work on their Win10 machines. I did what was requested and they asked if I could print out notes I wrote for them for reference but immediately started to wonder if that’s feasible as the printer was so difficult to install. It took less than a minute for my mint-laptop to locate the printer and start using it. No idea if the printer company techs were just incompetent or if the software for it is bad, but apparently I’m now some kind of tech-deity in their office…
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
they are not wrong that for the regular person, who struggles with even the most basic IT shit, there still isn’t a full “finished” option for them,
My dead mother, who couldn’t run windows for more than 6 months without trashing the install used mint without issue for years before she died in lil 22.If my tech illiterate mother can do it, just about anyone can.
The average user basically just needs a web browser and some office tools. If they can’t figure out how to use those in a different interface, they probably need to attend a ‘remedial computers 01’ course.
Facebook works just as well on Linus as windows. Most people are too scared to try, not unable to use it in my experience.
Soup@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Did you set it up for her? A normal person is not going to grab a USB and get Linux going on their own computer. And then there are all the distros where even savvy people can’t agree on what’s best and will be like “oh Mint and Ubuntu are both good options” and even having to choose and commit would be a big deal for most people, especially if they don’t have anyone who can help them with it.
It’s not about actually using it so much as it is the barrier to entry. I know that we know it’s actually not that difficult or crazy, but the layman sees basically any computer stuff as magic.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Tell me you don’t know that much about computers without telling me. MAC stands for Media Access Control, it’s a networking term, every device has a MAC address.
Mac is a computer made by Apple. It doesn’t stand for anything. It’s short for Macintosh. But there hasn’t been an “Apple Macintosh” in a long time. They’ve just been Macs. Oh, and macOS is certified UNIX, whatever that means, so stuff your elitism. We’re both using *nix. Mine just works without issues.
But in the interests of transparency, no, I haven’t actually tried to use Linux, like gave it a shot as a daily driver, in like 15-20 years. I’ve dabbled off and on but I think we can agree dicking around in a VM doesn’t count. More recently than that, I put Ubuntu on my mother-in-law’s computer and supported it for about a year, but then she went back to Windows — that was like a decade ago. I have used Linux off and on since the 90s. But what really stopped me — I got married. Settled down. Now, my wife doesn’t give a shit what the thing runs as long as Firefox works, but any weirdness with the OS, I gotta deal with it. That kept me on Windows, until I switched. If I were still on a regular PC, given all Microsoft’s bullshit, I’d probably be on Linux, most likely Ubuntu. But I had a hardware failure and I always wanted to try Mac, so I did.
Oh — just saw, “using it inside Windows”. Weird that you don’t know what that means since you’ve been using it for so long, but maybe that’s the reason. So, I’m not sure if they still do, but when I did this, Ubuntu had a thing, you’d download the distro, burn it to DVD, and run it, and it would run inside Windows as an app (in a VM, I assume). You then had the option to install it, because if you didn’t, nothing would survive a reboot. (Why it didn’t just save a config file to disk, I don’t know. Maybe that was an option.) So you install it, and while you use it, it partitions the drive and installs itself, in the background, then it copies its configuration/whatever you’ve downloaded to the install. Then it reboots into that, and then you’re dual booting. You can also delete the Windows partition. Not sure what you mean about a round peg and a square hole. Are you saying a computer built using off-the-shelf parts should only be used for Windows, and specific hardware needs to be used for Linux? Because I’ve literally never heard that before and you really sound like you don’t know what you’re talking about by saying that. So maybe clarify?
rarsamx@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Oh. Smart and pedantic about an autoincorrect. I’m not going to say I know more about computers than you because… One never knows. I just started in 1982 and have only worked in IT my whole life in pretty much every role, in more than 30 languages and many different platforms plus contributing as a developer in a small distribution around 2006-2010 and ending up as a lead entreprise architect providing advise on the technological direction of 300+ systems. But again, maybe I don’t know much.
Your answer confirmed my original comment. You are commenting without fundament. “I used it 15 years ago” qualifies for speaking about Linux in past tense. Not in present tense.
By the way, I don’t know if you used virtualisation or WSL to run Ubuntu inside windows (I remember the Ubuntu cd had that executable) but it’s not the same as running a proper installation and back then WSL was lacking.
For me talking about WSL also qualifies as past tense as I haven’t used Windows at all since 2019.
Good for you that you like Apple. It doesn’t mean that Linux is not stable or is lacking though.
asudox@lemmy.asudox.dev 2 weeks ago
Oh shit. The god of technology just came and educated us about what MAC stands for. We should be grateful.
kirk781@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
Of course, it made a mockery of everything you know of Windows because it’s not like Windows. Neither is it meant to be used like one nor is it heading in that direction (not to mention that Windows is one monotonous thing, like if you know your hands across one install of Windows, you know it all. The same is not true about Linux. A Void Linux user might still not be as adept at a Gentoo install).
You are contradicting yourself. First you call it magic and then you call it not very deep. If it’s the latter, why do so many production servers run on Linux?
Some Linux distros like Debian have a fantastic reputation for stability. Sure, bugs still exist. I personally struggle with a distro agnostic bug that breaks workflows often on my current setup. But things have come a long way. And it’s better than Windows non customizable privacy invading approach any day.
The twin advantages Windows has is wrt games (though that is slowly being covered) and more importantly, specialized software. I know folks IRL who have to use Windows just because their work requires it.
omniman@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
Is bootloader locked on mac or apple products?
henfredemars@infosec.pub 3 weeks ago
Yes. However, it’s not super difficult to get a signed image to meet the requirements. To my knowledge they aren’t actively trying to prevent the installation of other operating systems.
I understand there’s quite a few missing drivers on the latest Macs. It’s possible to run Linux but I don’t think it’s especially user friendly at the moment.
masterofn001@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
henfredemars@infosec.pub 3 weeks ago
Don’t they have a bunch of kernel changes that they can’t merge upstream?
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
On iPhone, absolutely. On Mac, I’m not sure. I know I can use the disk manager to make a new partition, install whatever OS on it I want — though, my Macs are both ARM64, so I’m quite limited there — and boot to it. I’m not sure if it’s fair to say “the bootloader is unlocked” though. Since it’s Apple’s bootloader. I don’t know if I can change it. Like on Android, when I used to mess with custom firmware ~10 years ago, we’d replace the garbage Android bootloader with TWRP (Team Win Recovery Project) and that would give us the option to make backups and to flash custom forks of Android (e.g. CyanogenMod, AOKP, etc.). And some of those bootloaders were locked down pretty tight (like HTC’s) where some were wide open (like Samsung, before Knox was a thing).
jjlinux@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
RHEL, SUSE (SLES), Ubuntu, Alma, Rocky, CENTOS Stream, I could go on for hours with enterprise distros that blow Windows out of the water without flinching. And if we go to specific use-case distros, that’s a list for anyone to go over for days, while Windows is aiming to be THE OS, and failing miserably at this. This has been the case for at least a decade now.
Mac? I can see how some people could be geared towards it, not because it’s any better than the worst Linux distro, but because it’s made for lazy people that have no idea how anything works.
“In my 30 years of experience”, with what? With windows trying to run some other OS inside it like an app? Don’t 30 years of experience allow you to understand the amount of resources overhead that requires and how it’s just a VM or LXC, not bare metal that you’re running? And even then, it still worked.
All the stuff in your comment screams 'I want to scream that I know about something I know nothing about". Go back to your mom’s basement to doomscroll 4chan.
chloroken@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Braindead.
jjlinux@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
RHEL, SUSE (SLES), Ubuntu, Alma, Rocky, CENTOS Stream, I could go on for hours with enterprise distros that blow Windows out of the water without flinching. And if we go to specific use-case distros, that’s a list for anyone to go over for days, while Windows is aiming to be THE OS, and failing miserably at this. This has been the case for at least a decade now.
Mac? I can see how some people could be geared towards it, not because it’s any better than the worst Linux distro, but because it’s made for lazy people that have no idea how anything works.
“In my 30 years of experience”, with what? With windows trying to run some other OS inside it like an app? Don’t 30 years of experience allow you to understand the amount of resources overhead that requires and how it’s just a VM or LXC, not bare metal that you’re running? And even then, it still worked.
All the stuff in your comment screams 'I want to scream that I know about something I know nothing about". Go back to your mom’s basement to doomscroll 4chan.
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The hardest person to convert is a “power user”. I guess you should let Red Hat and SUSE know their main product is a project. Oh and Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc…
al_Kaholic@lemmynsfw.com 3 weeks ago
You heard what he said he installed every distro at once as a joke, what a project. Then he paid Steve jobs $3k to step on his balls.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Can regular users even use Red Hat anymore? Fedora Core is the open source spinoff. I loved using Red Hat in the 90s and I never warmed up to Fedora Core.
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Fedora Core hasn’t been a thing in decades, it’s just Fedora or the Fedora Project now. CentOS Stream is ABI compatible with RHEL If you create a free Red Hat Developer account you can get 16 free RHEL licenses. So, yes you very much can run RHEL.
Blisterexe@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Oh man, if you haven’t used linux is that long it’s changed drastically (for the better) since then.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
A lot of tech has gotten better.
I mean, except Windows. Obviously.
Or I should say Microsoft. I booted up my Xbox yesterday to play Cyberpunk and was greeted with a full-screen ad for Borderlands 4.