Comment on DOGE Plans to Rebuild SSA Codebase in Months, Risking Benefits and System Collapse
ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Ah yes, a classic tale…
“We’re going to take this perfectly efficient and functional COBOL code base and rewrite it in Java! And we’ll do it in a few months!”
So many more competent people and organizations than them have already tried this and spectacularly crashed and burned. There’s are literal case studies on these types of failed endeavors.
I bet they’ll do it in Waterfall too.
It’s interesting. If they use Grok, this could well be the deathknell for vibe programming (at least for now). It’s just fucking traffic that their hubris will cause grief and pain to do many Americans - and cost the lives of more than a few.
I’ve worked on these “cost saving” government rewrites before. The problem is getting decades of domain logic and behavior down to where people can be productive. It takes a lot of care and nuance to do this well.
Since these nazi pea brains can’t even secure a db properly I have my doubts they’ll do this successfully.
Not just domain logic. The implementation logic is often weird too. Cobol systems have crash/restart behaviour and other obscure semantics that often end up being used in anger; it’s like using exceptions for control flow, but exceedingly obscure and unfortunately (from what I’ve seen of production cobol) a “common trick” in lots of real-world deployments.
Functional, yes. But rarely are these sorts of things efficient. They’re covered in decades of cruft and workarounds.
Which just makes them that much harder to port to a different language. Especially by some 19 year old who goes by “Big Balls”
My company actually wrote their flagship software in COBOL starting in the 80s, and we’re only now six years into rewriting everything in a more modern language with probably four years to go.
I can’t imagine trying to start such a project like rewriting all of Social Security and thinking it will take months. You have to be a special kind of fatuous to unironically think that.
I was briefly employed at a firm that maintained the sales commission software for a large telecom firm.
It was 1.5 million lines of VB6, though VB8 was already three years old. Nobody knew all of it, so they couldn’t possibly rewrite it to handle all the edge cases and special incentives we kept having to add.
Except maybe the lone QA person, who would frequently begin sobbing at her desk. And we could all hear it because it was an open plan office and we weren’t allowed to wear headphones.
That job was so bad I quit and began freelancing.
Similarly, my company are 4 years into a rewrite of a cobol mainframe system much simpler than Social Security. Which was going to “take a year” there’s at least 5 years left.
I know the UK benefits system took well over 12 years to build with an programming workforce of over 2000 and I imagine it’s simpler having to support a population one fifth the size of the US.
The kind that thinks full self driving is two years away, perhaps?
AGI is definitely just around the corner! We just need to throw more money and the energy produced by half the country at it!
He can’t be this delusional, right? It is almost line he is just trying to inflict damage?
He’s not. He wins either way. The government crumbles, he gets to remake it in his image. He fails, he gets to claim he made the government more efficient, and the fact that it’s limping along is just the result of “necessary” pruning.
This is all theater. He doesn’t actually care about the outcome or the American people.
I think his and Trump’s roles are to be saboteurs.
The kind that thinks all those edge cases don’t matter and if they don’t get payments it’s just another example of “waste, fraud, and abuse.”
screams in quality assurance
It’s worth noting that one of those organizations is IBM. Mostly relevant because they’re the ones that originally built a lot of that cobol, the mainframes it runs on, and even the compilers that compiled it.
They’re basically the people you would expect to be able to do it, and they pretty quickly determined that the cost of a rewrite and handling all the downstream bugs and quirks would exceed the ongoing maintenance cost of just training new cobol developers.
My dad was a cobol developer (rather, a pascal developer using a compiler that transpiled to cobol which was then linked with the cobol libraries and recompiled for the mainframe), and before he retired they decided to try to replace everything with c#. Evidently a year later their system still took a week to run the nightly reports and they had rehired his former coworkers at exorbitant contractor rates.
I bet they’ll do it in Waterfall too.
Nah B. This will be Extreme Agile XP with testing exclusively in Prod. Xitter will be the code repository.
Pair programming with Grok.
Spotty DOGE intern developer: “what’s a for loop?”
Grok: “Look it up yourself, noob! Holy shit do I hate Elon Musk in every fucking way!”
I’d think they’d put the commits onto the blockchain.
What’s “vibe programming”?
Stupid term for when people who don’t know how to program ask AI to generate code for them which they have no expertise to actually validate.
Of course Leo has a fish in his PFP
The best commercial models did dumb stuff yesterday and I bet they’ll still do dumb stuff tomorrow
It’s when people try to have LLM’s generate code and then try to assemble the pieces produced into semi-functional, usually really bad, software I think.
And I think “vibe” means that they have no experience with programming so they can’t read the code they copy.
It’s understanding code like chatgpt helps me understand Hungarian.
Bold of you to assume they’ll use Java and not some obscure language picked based on the need to pad their resumes.
We all know it’s going to be nodejs, backed up by mongodb. This is because LOC on the commits can be maximized for minimal effort, and it will need to be rewritten every 2-3 years.
In my shop, some of the managers were OK with teams using server-side node, with Mongo.
Those managers are now gone, and one of my jobs was to lifecycle that shit out. Just being near npm was enough to shorten my life by several years.
Mongo’s actually a really nice choice for some use cases. It just wasn’t good for what we were trying to use it for. Its replacement was Postgres, one DB for OLTP-like processing and another for OLAP. Works like a champ, and the improved analytics mean we’ve been able to tune the hell out of that sucker.
They’re not going to use Java, it’s going to be typescript.
Or Rust
You think those script kiddies know Rust?
No, but they want to seem cool
And they’ll use Grok to write the code anyway 😂
Rust is not a language I’d use for financial apps, but it’s not a bad language. So I doubt that they’d use it. Musk is of a generation where he’d probably tell them to use PHP. Or if he listens to the twenty-something bros around him, maybe it’d be Dart, which is another decent language that’s not well suited to the problem domain.
zqwzzle@lemmy.ca 4 weeks ago
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