Submitted 5 weeks ago by BrikoX@lemmy.zip to globalnews@lemmy.zip
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-68770187
An Australian museum excluded men from an exhibit to highlight misogyny. A man sued for access and won.
Archived version: archive.ph/mkwF8
I’m not really a fan of the whole “we’ll be intolerant so you know what it feels like” but it’s also the only way I can really know what it feels like as a white man from a middle class family. I’m on the fence on this one.
They should just make it a small art exhibit out front, then 2 bathrooms, the mens is normal, with some basic art, but the women’s bathroom has a bar and cocktail lounge and the extra amenities. Then the business wouldn’t be excluding men, it would just be providing them a different experience in the bathroom which I feel like they’d have a much better time defending in court. But it also seems like this whole thing was done as a form of activism and it looks like one of the intents is for this business to close down so they can be martyrs.
You don’t need to know what it feels like. Trying to fight intolerance with intolerance isn’t successful.
You don’t need to know what it feels like.
no, but it can help
Trying to fight intolerance with intolerance isn’t successful.
blanket statements like this are rarely helpful or true
That's easy.
For starters:
Go to China. Go to the middle east. Go to Zimbabwe. Go to the wrong parts of Brazil or South Africa.
Hell, go to Northern Ireland.
It's an idiotic thing to state that white people are not and have never been oppressed.
Go to the wrong parts of Brazil or South Africa.
What do you you mean "wrong parts"? 🤨
It's an idiotic thing to state that white people are not and have never been oppressed.
White (an invented and morphose social category predicated on anti-Blackness) people have never been oppressed for being white.
The more interesting thing to me is… They were modeling a thing that was popular in the 60s, according to the article. It’s an art display to protest something from 60+ years ago. A lot of the people who would go to such an exhibit weren’t alive, and certainly weren’t adults at the time.
There are surely problems that women face today but I don’t see how this helps shine any light on that or does anything at all for it.
I think it’s fine as a limited art piece, but sexism is sexism and should not be perpetrated against any gender in a serious way.
Idk how I feel about this. I will say however, any time I’ve ever seen feminist principles be applied exclusionary, it’s always additionally accompanied by TERF shit. It’s a very quick pipeline from “no boys allowed” to “no trans allowed”. The lines dividing can be so blurry… I don’t think it’s a good mindset.
I’ll bring this up only once, because not only do I not want to deal with backlash, I also dont want to stand in the way of progress or hurt anyone who is trans, but: Notice how society mostly freaks out about Trans Women, and Trans men are an afterthought in that outrage. Its because Misandry is playing a not insignificant part in this. A key thing about transphobes is they arent seeing Trans Women as Women, and its their ideas on how MEN are that are informing their vitrol. So you are seeing those two go hand in hand for a reason
Yup, trans men are “poor deluded women and victims of the patriarchy” and trans women are “predators trying to invade women’s spaces”. And that’s if trans men are even thought of at all.
Yeah that was the allusion I was leaning towards
From their website:
The lounge is a tremendously lavish space in our museum in which women can indulge in decadent nibbles, fancy tipples, and other ladylike pleasures—hosted and entertained by the fabulous butler. And as is always the case with Kirsha’s dinners and feasts, you are a participant in what she sees as the art itself, part of a living installation. Any and all ladies are welcome.
Any and all ladies doesn’t sound like they are excluding people that may not have been born female. It sounds, at least to me, that it includes said person group.
Under liberalism, the goal of the oppressed is to become the oppressor.
Perhaps women should take on The Melbourne Club next and see how quickly men change their mind on the subject?
I understand the guy’s argument in this case seems to be the fact he bought a ticket at the same price as a woman but was excluded from one of the exhibits, but the overarching point of sexual discrimination works both ways.
There is. Arizona has slavery without having people own people - you’re completely failing to address the horrors of compulsory labor.
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
If the artist had opened an exhibit of her own work only to women, I could defend that as artistic expression. However, this is just a museum being sexist and then saying “It’s just art bro!”
With that said, apparently the museum is privately funded. I tend to think that this ought to mean it can be sexist if that’s what the people running it want (as a matter of principle, not as a matter of Australian law).
wahming@monyet.cc 5 weeks ago
IDK, I’d see issues with a cafe saying ‘No colored people allowed’.
bluGill@kbin.social 5 weeks ago
I (a white person) wouldn't knowingly going into such a Cafe, but I still allow them to exist. It is a matter of defending - as much as possible - the right of others to do things I find stupid. There are lines, but I try to use them to cover as little as possible: all lines can be used against me.
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
I feel like running a museum is a lot more like a form of expression than running a cafe is. “Who is the audience for art?” seems like a topic where a government-imposed “correct answer” is more of a problem than it would be if the topic were “Who eats a sandwich?”
state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 5 weeks ago
I read in another thread that the women-only rule was an art installation and they were happy when the guy sued, because it created the publicity they were looking for.
ryathal@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
The problem with letting private businesses discriminate is that it often leads to total discrimination. A single racist towing company would be a huge problem. A racist grocery store could be the only one in town. Sure you might not go to a racist bar, but what if the fire or police chief frequents that place?
ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
That if about the police chief is doing some heavy lifting.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
It’s the privately funding thing, I’m sure Australia has men’s clubs like the Eagles, Masonic, etc. My guess is that if they offered tickets to purchase, there would be the discrimination? You can’t sell something and not offer it to everyone. OTOH, that doesn’t make sense because we have timed tickets and members only tickets here in the US, do they have something like that in Australia?