Your server owner is now banned from participating on lemmy's Github

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨snowe@programming.dev⁩ to ⁨meta@programming.dev⁩

https://programming.dev/pictrs/image/5837b9c6-a5a3-422a-81a0-95ac7edfe5f5.png

I will no longer be able to assist with development nor debugging actual issues with the software… Quite juvenile behavior from the devs. It stemmed from this issue where the devs continuously argued in public by opening and closing an issue. Anyway, thought I would keep y’all apprised of the situation, since these are the people maintaining the software you are currently using.

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starman@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I think that you should update your post with information that this ban is only for 7 days.

This:

I will no longer be able to assist with development Suggests that ban is infinite.

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- Lesrid@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Yeah but if you were in this position would really want to contribute again? It’s virtually an indefinite ban when the reason is this absurd.
  
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  - starman@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Yes, If I would contribute to lemmy, I wouldn’t do it for the devs, but for the software and it’s users.
    
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  - GarbageShoot@hexbear.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Unwilling =/= Unable, this is transparent sophistry
    
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- snowe@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Where do you see that information? I didn’t even know it was possible to do this until last night so not sure how I’m supposed to know how long it lasts.
  
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  - starman@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Sorry, I assumed that github shows it to you somehow. I know about it from nutomic’s comment
    
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lemann@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Informative, and unfortunate.

100% agree with your take on the original issue - it should be a discussion between the devs, not edging along the lines of an argument. However, I do feel like the discussion would have been better suited to the dev Matrix chat or something

Even if they were upsetted by your comments, banning you was not the right way to handle that IMO.

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- elvith@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Just do it like other projects - tag it as enhancement, postpone it forever, be done with it. And in case it’s a useful enhancement, you can see the votes accumulating on the issue and maybe really reconsider implementing it?
  
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- moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  Informative, and unfortunate.
  
  Do you watch Louis Rossmann?
  
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  - lemann@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Yepp I do, that’s where I got it from lol
    
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mao@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Idk I think y’all are a bit too dramatic lol. Imho you’re reading too much into a small aggression. This has nothing to do with the future of Lemmy or anything as grandiose as that

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- snowe@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  This has nothing to do with the future of Lemmy or anything as grandiose as that
  
  I didn’t say it did. I mentioned that it would affect me, the person who runs the server you’re commenting on. That’s it.
  
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  - mao@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I was referring to other commenters, mb should’ve been clearer about it
    
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- August27th@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  nothing to do with the future of Lemmy
  
  Let’s not go that far. That said, it’s certainly not everything to do with it either. Let’s call it an indicator and keep an eye on it.
  
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space_comrade@hexbear.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

Quite juvenile behavior from the devs.

The constant closing and reopening the issue was a bit weird but I didn’t really see any hostility or toxic behavior, except from you getting pissy about it out of nowhere.

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pixxelkick@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Looks like snowe missed the fact that each of those close/reopens were months apart, so it’s clear the issue would ge re-opened, still not addressed after many many months, then closed to clean up the backlog, then re-opened because it actually still has value.

Snowe it seems interpreted this as two people fighting and not just normal stuff that happens on giant repos with many devs.

What he did wrong was comment about behaviors/edicit on a PR, which is not the appropriate place to have that convo.

PR comments are for talking about the PR, not for having meta convos about comments on PRs.

I don’t even participate in this repo, but I can say that snowe was off topic here.

However the owner’s reaction of a whopping seven day ban and “learn your lesson” comment was also abrasive and unreasonable.

Both sides fucked up here, get ya’lls shit together and apologize to each other yo.

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- snowe@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  You are correct. I didn’t notice that the comments were quite far apart. I was sent that issue by concerned members of my community and I kinda rushed in and commented.
  
  Snowe it seems interpreted this as two people fighting and not just normal stuff that happens on giant repos with many devs.
  
  correct, but it was not simply based on that one Issue. It was based on months of watching their interactions with the community.
  
  PR comments are for talking about the PR, not for having meta convos about comments on PRs.
  
  Then where do you have those conversations? (also it wasn’t a PR, it was an issue) The conversations are about the code and about the decision making process around the code. They belong in a permanent store (not chat) where the decisions can be referenced. Would you recommend creating another separate issue to have the conversation?
  
  I don’t even participate in this repo, but I can say that snowe was off topic here.
  
  I can agree that my second comment was off-topic, but the first comment clearly discussed why the issue should be left open.
  
  However the owner’s reaction of a whopping seven day ban and “learn your lesson” comment was also abrasive and unreasonable.
  
  Honestly that wasn’t the part that frustrated me. It was the no response no warning part of the interaction that was insulting. How am I supposed to know whether they marked my comment off-topic because I commented on the closing of the Issue or because they just didn’t want to talk to users about the problem? How was I supposed to know that I was even going to get a ban (I didn’t even know you could ban people and I have over a hundred repos on GH) for continuing to comment? And finally how was I supposed to even know that the ban was temporary? All the lack of communication did was lead to me making this post. If I had known it was only 7 days I probably wouldn’t have done anything at all. Just let it pass, as waiting a week to respond is nothing in OSS land.
  
  Both sides fucked up here, get ya’lls shit together and apologize to each other yo.
  
  I’ve already talked to Dessalines about it. Not sure what to do about Nutomic.
  
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- philm@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Well yeah the second comment didn’t really had to be, but hey it’s certainly not really reason enough to ban someone from the repo. The first comment I think is totally ok (as well as marking it off-topic, but optimally with an answer, probably marked as off-topic as well). Just keep an issue (it’s not a PR) open, until the issue is resolved in one way or the other i.e. either solved reasonably via a third-party client (with links to it), asking the community, whether this is resolved, wait for reactions, and close it after some time based on that. Banning someone, or quickly closing or not reopening after a carefully written argument, that the issue is not solved etc. is just childish behaviour, especially for a community focused project (I’m watching a few lemmy issues on GH).
  
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  - pixxelkick@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    or quickly closing or not reopening after a carefully written argument
    
    Thats where I think the misunderstanding was, if you look at the dates, many of the closings happened months after the issue was opened and no one posted anything on it, so it would clearly look to be a stale issue, so its reasonable to give a quick “Im closing this because of x” comment.
    
    Often in those cases the person is doing a bunch of cleanup and has to close dozens of stale issues, so writing a multi paragraph response on every single one is a lot of time to put into it.
    
    Then later the issue is re-opened again because it actually isnt stale, it just looks stale, and the cycle repeats as it continues to sit on the backburner.
    
    This is all very normal on any larger project, its pretty common to see issues get closed and re-opened if they are very low priority and sit on the backburner for literally years, and its common to see they have a bunch of short “Im closing this because x” responses as a result.
    
    But, if you look at the dates, you go "Oh, I see, these comments are months apart and not even really a “convo” but more just documentation.
    
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Deebster@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
This is ridiculously petty from the devs, and does make me seriously wonder about Lemmy’s future.

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- kugel7c@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Idk if they care about a particular thing FOOS devs are often petty. I don’t think it’s actually a threat to the project. Like read unix mailing lists from Linus or whoever else, it can get downright toxic. e.g.:
  
  "BULLSHIT. Have you looked at the patches you are talking about? You should have - several of them bear your name. […] As it is, the patches are COMPLETE AND UTTER GARBAGE. […] WHAT THE F*CK IS GOING ON? " here
  
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  - TragicNotCute@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I think Linus gets away with a lot because the value Linux delivers is pretty out of this world.
    
    Being rude to people trying to contribute in good faith seems like a way to send them to a competitor and if one exists, that doesn’t bode well for the project.
    
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mark@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Dude, who in their right mind would add scheduling infra to a client? 😆 I’m going to need these Lemmy devs to have a tad bit more experience before they start being so dismissive, especially to someone who’s just trying to help.

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- TempestTiger@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Hi there more experienced person, would you mind explaining the intricacies of the madness for a lowly n00b?
  
  Is it just 'cause it’d need the client to be constantly running to output the scheduling? So like, you set it to schedule a post and then you have to actually open it as an app before it would actually work if it wasn’t running in the background when the time ticked over? Is there more to it? Any and all details you’d be willing to explain would be appreciated.
  
  Regardless, I hope you have a lovely day and best of luck with everything you’re doing!
  
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- rglullis@communick.news ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  A “client” in this context can mean anything, including another separate service.
  
  This makes no sense to have in a desktop/mobile app, but it certainly should not go to the server as well.
  
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UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Just an all round juvenile behaviour from the devs. Would expect a project like this to be more properly managed.

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spaduf@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Lemmy needs a fork, if only to kick the devs into gear with regards to actually working with/listening to the community. At this point a significant number of users have been lost because the devs have been largely unable to capitalize on previous waves on growth due to slow development. It’s one thing if it’s just a couple of devs working on the project and trying their best, it’s an entirely different thing when a couple of devs are shutting out large numbers of contributors over relatively trivial issues. Mbin is reviving Kbin as a project and we need something similar for Lemmy.

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- Evotech@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Forks would murder the community is they weren’t compatible
  
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  - elbarto777@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    They don’t have to be incompatible.
    
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- ParanoidFactoid@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
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  - spaduf@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Let’s not forget, there is a very real sense in which building the communities is harder than building the software. Anything that can be done to preserve existing communities is a win in my book.
    
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  - interolivary@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Yeah, I’d tend to agree. Lemmy’s codebase is pretty atrocious and it looks like the main devs really don’t know Rust well enough, and honestly they don’t seem to be very good at developing a service like this. There’s just no reason to go with Rust for a web service project like Lemmy (despite what Rust cultists will undoubtedly soon come to tell me), it limits the amount of people who can work on it due to not being as commonly used in this particular field, and it’s honestly baffling how they managed to use Rust and make the service as slow as it is – speaks volumes of how shitty the design is, and that they’re doing something fairly stupid with their database.
    
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Sibbo@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Everyone is human, everyone makes mistakes. Sometimes people are also in a very bad mood and act weirdly because of that. Let’s not make a big drama out of it.

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- elbarto777@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Sure. You’re not the one with the seven day ban.
  
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  - miridius@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Oh no a whole 7 days? How will they ever survive /s
    
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lazynooblet@lazysoci.al ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Are you actually /banned/ front participating on GitHub? That seems really petty.

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- Rambi@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Apparantly it’s for 2 weeks
  
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dingleberry@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Sorry, which account is yours?

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- subignition@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  They are the account whose comment is collapsed as off-topic
  
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warmaster@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Fork! Fork! Fork!

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netburnr@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Just use the api, that’s what we all do for scheduled posts. I don’t need it built into the client or server, it already works with today’s tools

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- PuzzledBlueberry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  What tools are you referring to?
  
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  - netburnr@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I use github.com/RikudouSage/LemmyApi for my city community. Nice downvote there bud…
    
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ParanoidFactoid@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
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- millie@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I have GIMP and Photoshop installed and have at all times for well over a decade. I literally only use GIMP and I use it nearly every single day. Photoshop does some fancy stuff that GIMP isn’t as good at, but as far as basic image editing? Give me the lightweight FOSS client with a sleek minimalist UI that’s been the same for ages over some bulky corporate offering that loves to move things around and change its appearance just to look new.
  
  I agree that Lemmy is a mess, but GIMP is the wrong target for this post. It’s fantastic.
  
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  - ParanoidFactoid@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
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Vendul@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
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- Vendul@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
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Enzy@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Epic.

Gotta love their Lemmy profiles too. Clearly not mentally ill.

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- mnglw@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  No need to stigamitize mental illnesses just because you disagree with someone or think they have a bad take
  
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  - Enzy@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I am mentally ill. It’s not hard to *not *spot it.
    
    Perhaps the “maybe that will teach you a lesson” part of their comment indicates to a well preserved personality?
    
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miridius@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
TBH the most juvenile person in that thread was you, by far. Let the devs manage tickets the way they want to, who are you to say that their form of discussion by opening and closing is wrong if it works for them? Your initial point was valid but then you started acting all high and mighty in a way that didn’t contribute anything, I’m not surprised that they don’t have time to deal with your shit, in sorry.

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EthicalAI@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I’ll just say (on the issue) I agree that everything possible to implement on a daemon running parallel to the instance should be implemented as such. That way the instance stays small and focused, and the dev team doesn’t get flooded with requests.

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