Would it be possible to have a successful career as a lawyer and never lie?

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨a_gee_dizzle@lemmy.ca⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

I’m not asking about the ethics of lying, or whether lawyers may be justified in lying. That is beside the point. I am just asking: hypothetically, would it be possible for a lawyer to have a successful career while never uttering so much as a white lie?

Like, let’s say the lawyer had some sort of spell cast on them, so they could never lie. If someone were to ask them a question, they’d either need to find a way to avoid answering or answer honestly. Would it be possible for a lawyer in such circumstances to still go on and have a successful career?

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Steve@communick.news ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Not all lawyers are trial lawyers. There are lots of things you can do helping people with paperwork of various kinds. EoL planing and incorporating businesses, for 2 examples off the top of my head.

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- MissJinx@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  also, just adding, very hard to be a human and never ever lie.
  
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  - Steve@communick.news ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    There is a lot of social pressure to lie to kids especially.
    I hate it.
    
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ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Of course.

First, lawyers don’t say “my client is innocent”. They say “my client claims he is innocent”. Lawyers are not witnesses, they don’t claim anything in the court. They present evidence and ask questions. You don’t have to lie to do it.

Second, people imagine the job of a lawyer is to get their client acquitted. It’s not, it’s to represent their client in court.

Let’s say you are a lawyer and you have to represent a serial killer. The evidence is overwhelming and it’s obvious he is guilty but still he pleads “not guilty”. Your job is not to try avoid conviction. Your job is to make sure he is treated fairly and that his rights are respected. You basically have to oversee the trial from his side. Make sure that evidence was obtained legally, that witnesses tell the truth, that experts have proper credentials. You don’t have to lie to do any of that.

Yes, some lawyers will be experts in taking out criminals out of jails by manipulating juries, forging evidence or intimidating witnesses. Most lawyers are not.

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Brkdncr@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Lawyers don’t lie. They massage the truth.

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disregardable@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
“Due to my ethical obligations to my client, I am unable to answer that question. If your honor insists on an answer, I will need to withdraw.”

You will lose out on a lot of money though. Remember that there are two sides to every story, and it’s not the lawyer’s job to judge what the truth is. The lawyer advocates. The judge and jury decide.

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- bizarroland@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I work with lawyers and I have to say lawyers are by and far either the most or least ethical people you have ever met.
  
  And success is not determined by your ethics as a lawyer.
  
  The best lawyers find the points of the truth that are the most salient to their case and push those.
  
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YoFrodo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
No because even avoiding answering can be a lie. A lie of omission.

The key being that you are hiding some detail or information in an attempt to deceive, that is what makes it a lie.

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- surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  In that case, no one can ever tell the truth. Because you can never know what thing you’ve accidentally left out might be considered relevant to the person you’re talking to.
  
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  - YoFrodo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Not true. The key is the intent and attempt to deceive. Forgetting to include info or being aware of it means you did not intend to deceive.
    
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RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Define lie.

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- a_gee_dizzle@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Knowingly saying something false. I wouldn’t consider omitting information to be lying. Maybe in some contexts it is but for a lawyer that seems too stringent
  
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- YoFrodo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Deceit through misinformation or hiding information.
  
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  - mech@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    If omitting information is a lie, then no, you can’t be a successful lawyer without that.
    Your job is to help your client. Informing the opposition of something they missed and that would help their case hurts your client who pays and relies on you.
    But then you can’t be a successful business owner, politician, Union rep or even parent without lying either. Unlimited honesty and transparency isn’t really something society values.
    
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  - bizarroland@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I would argue that hiding information is not always lying.
    
    There are lies of omission, but it depends on if you are asked about the things you are omitting or not.
    
    And even if you are, it is possible to steer the conversation away from the thing without actually telling a lie.
    
    Politicians do it all of the time.
    
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  - RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    How do you define hiding information?
    
    If you constantly hide the fact you hate your boss from him, does that count because that’d be a problem in most jobs.
    
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cecilkorik@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I would respond that it’s almost impossible to thrive in any sort of human society that has ever existed in history without telling even the faintest hint of a white lie sometimes. I don’t think it’s realistically possible to be a successful human, nevermind a lawyer. Everyone thinks they’re being completely honest all the time, until you spend some years having a bunch of philosophers pick apart the entire basis of the reality you think you’re not lying to yourself or anyone else about, then once you’re done figuring out what reality actually is, you might have a totally different idea of what lying even means. But you’ll never get there, because you’ll never actually figure out what reality even is, nobody comes out the other side of existential philosophy. This isn’t new stuff, the ancient Greeks were struggling with it thousands of years ago, and we only know that because they were among the first who bothered to write it all down.

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fizzle@quokk.au ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Obviously it depends on what is meant by a lie.

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meco03211@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Someone just watched Liar Liar.

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- Lumidaub@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  But not all the way through?
  
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captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
A good lawyer always tells the truth professionally. At least in common law countries like mine. I’m going to generally speak USian, but our northerly neighbors are likely similar as are the brits, kiwis, and aussies. I’m not certain a prosecutor in my country could do well without lying at all, but that’s an entirely different problem of cultural collapse.

A defense lawyer defends both innocent and guilty as their zealous advocate. Their job is to poke doubt in the prosecution’s narrative and possibly provide a counter narrative, but generally challenge everything the prosecution can’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt. They may also just be pleading for lesser sentencing. That’s part of how plea deals became so common here. They also don’t say the client is innocent, they state that the client is pleading guilty or not guilty. People can be not guilty and have done it as well, so long as they either have a lawful reason to do the action, or are incapable of legal guilt such as by insanity. Copaganda has attempted to convince the masses that these people are lying scumbags who get bad guys on the streets instead of defenders of liberty who force the government to actually prove people did what they claim they did.

A prosecutor’s job is to take the evidence and build and reinforce a narrative that can withhold the defense’s scrutiny. It should be wholly truthful to the best of their knowledge. The goal is to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty and then advocate for a sentence they feel is fair.

Then you’ve got all sorts of other lawyers. Cause lawyers like human rights and environmental lawyers largely argue over interpretations of laws and whether actions violate them. These people ought to believe what they say. Business and corporate lawyers don’t even have room to lie, they’re just building contracts and such.

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just_another_person@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Nope

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Reygle@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I’m not convinced it’s practical to even BECOME a lawyer without lying.

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- a_gee_dizzle@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Law school’s like that eh?
  
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verdi@tarte.nuage-libre.fr ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I feel like there’s a sequel to liar liar incoming and Jim is doing prep work on the fediverse…

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