Kick faces possible $49 M fine after French streamer Jean Pormanove dies on air

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• Womble@piefed.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The title kinda buries the lede there. I thought it was ridiculous to fine a platform just because a streamer happened to die on camera, but no, they were streaming months long abuse and torture of this guy at the hands of his co-streamers.

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  • idntknow@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    It is insane how it is even possible to live stream the torture of someone for months without any law enforcement getting involved.

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    • TheMcG@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      They kinda did. The dudes were taken in as part of an ongoing investigation but were then released.

      ctvnews.ca/…/outcry-over-french-streamers-death-o…

      The investigation, opened in December, is looking into “deliberate violence against vulnerable persons” and “spreading recordings of images related to offences involving deliberate violations of physical integrity,” Martinelli’s statement said. It did not specify why Pormanove could be considered vulnerable.

      The statement said two co-streamers allegedly involved in the case were briefly taken into custody in January but were released pending further investigation.

      In parallel, the Nice prosecutor said, investigators interviewed Pormanove and one of his co-streamers who both appeared to be victims of violence and humiliation. They “strongly denied being victims of violence, stating that the events were staged in order to `generate a buzz’ and make money.”

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    • PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It’s all over the place on Facebook and Twitter though. There’s dog fighting, cock fighting, monkey abuse showing up on my Facebook home feed every now and then. This shouldn’t be a surprise really.

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    • WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It’s similar to fear factor—you can authorize quite a lot of things in a contract.

      The medical examiner has said that they don’t think his death was caused directly by the treatment during the stream.

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    • ayyy@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      As long as you give a platform to the right wing, laws never apply to you.

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  • jagermo@feddit.org ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    OK, but - could he not leave? Or say “i do not want to”? I don’t get it

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    • mrdown@lemmy.world ⁨55⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

      He may have been very emotionally broken that he can’t think rationally . Everybody has completly different tolerability levels. The teo guys who tortured him could still have say no too so they are responsible

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    • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Nice victim blaming.

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    • WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      He could.

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  • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    By how it reads, it kind of looks like more of a Jack-ass situation if voluntary abuse. There was some mention of him getting shot with paint balls. Also, the autopsy report said he had no trauma.

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    • cheese_greater@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Physical trauma maybe

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  • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    If that is the case then I’d like to see how aware they were of what was happening. I’d push for criminal charges against management in that case.

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    • oozynozh@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Kick CEO was a top 5 donor to the channel in question. Not only did they know, they actively encouraged it.

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  • frongt@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Was it real or simulated? I haven’t seen any article make a definitive statement.

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    • Rothe@piefed.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      “Salut maman, Comment tu vas ? Coincé pour un moment avec son jeu de mort, avait-il déclaré. Ça va trop loin. J’ai l’impression d’être séquestré avec leur concept de merde. J’en ai marre, je veux me barrer, l’autre il veut pas, il me séquestre”. ("Hi Mom, how are you doing? Stuck for a moment with his death game, he said. It's going to be Too far. I feel like I'm sequestered with their concept of Shirt. I'm sick of it, I want to get out, the other one he wants Don't, he's sequestering me.")

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    • _cryptagion@anarchist.nexus ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Uh, what’s does that matter? Is it ok to stream shit like that if it’s simulated?

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  • Steve@startrek.website ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    The fuck

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• mhague@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

  What changed between the ‘months of torture’ and Naruto and Safine being arrested, and the '10 days ’ leading up to his death?

  It sounds sick that the French government would decide a man is being tortured yet they’re not obligated to intervene… while at the same time they fine a company for not stepping in.

  If this man was negligently killed, authorities and kick are to blame, but it’s the authorities that should’ve been the failsafe, not the company. I can see why French politicians are Very Mad™ and Seriously Considering Bigger Punishments™.

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  • mrdown@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

    Exactly the autorities should be help accountable too

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• lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

  Can someone point that out the part where this wasn’t voluntary or the guy was held captive & not free to leave or end the voluntary abuse at any time?

  Isn’t this idiots kink-playing too hard with extra fines & no accountability?

  Viral compilation threads have shown Pormanove being hit, strangled, and fired at with paintball guns while streaming with Naruto and Safine, whose lawyers claim they hold “no responsibility.”

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• CatsGoMOW@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  This is straight out of Black Mirror S7E1 and the idea behind the “Dum Dummies” site. 😭

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• AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Can somebody explain to me why, emotions aside, the French guy is not responsible for his own choices? Unless it comes to light that he was coerced into staying on the show, why are other parties being held responsible instead of himself?

  I’m not looking to be controversial, I’m honestly curious if there’s some rational logic to it that I can understand, or this is all emotional.

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  • mrdown@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Article 223-15-2 of the French Penal Code. This article punishes the fraudulent abuse of the ignorance or state of weakness of a minor or a person whose particular vulnerability is apparent or known due to age, sickness, disability, pregnancy, or psychological dependency

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  • UnfairUtan@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    It’s a difficult situation to explain, and it will be even harder to judge.

    What seems to be true is that they had a hold on him. They seemed to abuse his mental weaknesses, and regularly made themselves look like benefactor for “saving him from himself” and making him earn a lot of money.

    Sure he could have technically walked out any day, but when you’re under the influence of manipulative “friends”, I’m not sure it’s that easy.

    Bear in mind that I’m not stating 100% proven facts.

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    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Yeah, depending on circumstance I can definitely see a case being made for the streamers having some responsibility.

      I don’t see how the platform should be responsible without opening up a can of worms involving censorship. Mastercard has proven we do not want fucking corps having that power.

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  • atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Whenever you do something that results in the death of another human there needs to be an investigation. From what I can tell no culpability has been found yet, but there is at least some evidence that this person was being held against their will.

    However, lots of European countries treat violence like the US treats porn so this could easily be something similar to the pearl clutching that would happen here if somebody was asphyxiated during a BDSM livestream.

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  • SculptusPoe@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Well. Devil’s advocate, they are holding the streaming service responsible because they didn’t block the stream, which presumably would presumably disrupt the streamer’s actions. I don’t personally think Kick should be responsible at all.

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    • moodymellodrone@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

      Yeah I don’t think the company should be legally responsible, since the streamers were investigated for abuse and subsequently cleared by police. Was there something the platform was legally obligated to do further? We can say it was morally wrong to allow the streaming of that type of content, yes

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    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Yeah, I don’t see how they’re responsible either, but I’m getting lots of emotional replies and nobody actually seems to want to admit they’re advocating censorship. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a thing.

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  • dontbelievethis@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Other parties are being held responsible for what?

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    • KumaSudosa@feddit.dk ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I’d imagine inducing stress and manipulation if anything. Pormanove and the fourth guy were and are both mentally challenged and thus more easily manipulated and coerced. Also no way you don’t see the signs coming from your “friend” after streaming together for more than a year and a half

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• fluxion@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  They deserve to pay every dime of it. They exploited this man’s torture with full knowledge of what they were doing to him on stream after multiple complaints

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• mrdown@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

  The autority should be held accountable too since they opened an investigation but did not force the streamers to temporarly stop streaming till the investigation is finished

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  • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works ⁨25⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

    I don’t think that’s a real issue. depending on how long this investigation goes, that would either be meaningless loss of revenue for these content creators, or an easy way to destroy the career of any other content creators too if a disgruntled viewer reports them falsely.

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• loudwhisper@infosec.pub ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I feel completely out of the loop when stuff like this happens.

  I went looking around and found an article that expanded a lot on this topic, maxread.substack.com/p/who-killed-jean-pormanove

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  • LesserAbe@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    This is helpful, thanks.

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  • gianni@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Damn, that was a good read.

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• Fizz@lemmy.nz ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Should get double finned for torturing Jean + Raja almost beating someone to death on stream.

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  • ParadoxSeahorse@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Mr Beast offering to pay for Raja’s opponent’s medical bills; he’s frankly lucky what happened to Jean hasn’t happened on his watch tbh. But he’d probably get off

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• cyrano@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  From a libé article:

  Raphaël Graven, 46, known under the pseudonym Jean Pormanove, died near Nice during a live broadcast on August 18 on the Australian video platform Kick after more than 12 days of live streaming showing him and another man being assaulted and humiliated by two people. Followed by nearly 200,000 viewers, the “Jeanpormanove” channel had for months shown Raphaël Graven being insulted, beaten, having his hair pulled, threatened, and even being shot at without protection with paintball projectiles. According to the channel’s promoters, the content was staged.

  Deputy Minister for Digital Affairs Clara Chappaz on Tuesday announced her intention to sue the Kick platform for “breach.” She made the announcement after a meeting convened at Bercy with officials from several ministries (Justice, Interior, Economy) and two independent authorities, accusing Kick of violating the 2004 Digital Trust law.

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• Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I guess I’m too old to understand what the hell Kick is or how grown people are making a living being childish bullies, but for Christ’s sake, they just killed courage the dog’s owner.

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• TheRealKuni@piefed.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Good thing Sauber is becoming Audi next season. That’s a lot of money for a title sponsor to lose (and it sounds like they deserve to lose it).

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  • cuerdo@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    You are out of frame, Donny

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• devfuuu@lemmy.world [bot] ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Money truly justifies all.

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