Is it just my ADHD, or did the article completely fail to mention why a streamer was forced by two other streamers to stay awake and ingest poison? Did they hold his family for ransom or something? I need context.
Kick faces possible $49 M fine after French streamer Jean Pormanove dies on air
Submitted 2 weeks ago by xc2215x@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
Psythik@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
lmagitem@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
If I understood properly the guy was a kinda homeless person that the two fuckers “hosted” in their house in exchange for participating (being tortured) in their streams. He was disabled or mentally challenged too, and there was another victim of theirs that was handicapped in the flat too.
The alarm has been raised for at least 8 months but neither the police nor the agencies nor the minister contacted either did or decided to do anything. Every time the police came the victims were saying that all was good and their gave their consent to anything, but on stream they were often asking to call the cops, an ambulance or trying to leave and the two fuckers barred them the exit and threatened to beat them or throw them back to the streets. So they were basically held hostage.
The whole thing is a disgrace. It was the most viewed French language stream on Kick for months, two vulnerable people being tortured on stream and nobody did anything.
lmagitem@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
From what I understood the two fuckers will probably get a 25 to 30 years of jail sentence, and some of the people who donated money to them to encourage them in the torture also risk prison time. Which I fucking hope they get.
Barracuda@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
So all those “red room” legends were true. It’s just that instead of being in the dark web, it was broadcast in public for the world to see. How dystopian.
lmagitem@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
There is even a sequence where the two fuckers try to force him to say that “if he dies on stream, it won’t be their fault” but the fault of his “shitty health situation”. He flat out refused.
They perfectly knew they were in the process of killing him.
Tortellinius@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Kinda homeless? The victim is the largest french gaming streamer and definitely not homeless. There’s indications of mental health problems but it’s only visible on camera. There are no documents verifying it unfortunately (though it seems evident). The two killers are people he’s known and hung out with for years.
Saleh@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
After the whole spiking their own wifes and mothers to pass around for rape online, including with making videos, i am starting to think France has a pretty bad problem with psychopaths and a society that is looking away or even encouraging it rather than stepping in.
Gigasser@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s sort of an extension of lolcow culture. This is a vid I recommend to watch to understand it.
Schlemmy@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
His streams were about self deprecation, humiliation and abuse. He let those two guys abuse him to the limit and apparently they went over the limit.
It was with consent but they still be charged with murder and probably get convicted too.
This went on for weeks, months, and nobody interfered. They just gave a platform for the abuse.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Neither it, nor several other articles linked by it have clarified this. Frustrating times.
fluxion@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They deserve to pay every dime of it. They exploited this man’s torture with full knowledge of what they were doing to him on stream after multiple complaints
mhague@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What changed between the ‘months of torture’ and Naruto and Safine being arrested, and the '10 days ’ leading up to his death?
It sounds sick that the French government would decide a man is being tortured yet they’re not obligated to intervene… while at the same time they fine a company for not stepping in.
If this man was negligently killed, authorities and kick are to blame, but it’s the authorities that should’ve been the failsafe, not the company. I can see why French politicians are Very Mad™ and Seriously Considering Bigger Punishments™.
moodymellodrone@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Exactly. Law enforcement investigated and found no wrongdoing. They’re the ones who dropped the ball here.
Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Jackass stunts and fights aren’t sustained over multiple days ever
hanrahan@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Saleh@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
It seemed that for Jackass ultimately noone was killed. Also it seems that the participants were not in a vulnerable situation that was exploited, but engaged with full consent and were able to give consent.
mrdown@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Exactly the autorities should be help accountable too
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Can somebody explain to me why, emotions aside, the French guy is not responsible for his own choices? Unless it comes to light that he was coerced into staying on the show, why are other parties being held responsible instead of himself?
I’m not looking to be controversial, I’m honestly curious if there’s some rational logic to it that I can understand, or this is all emotional.
UnfairUtan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s a difficult situation to explain, and it will be even harder to judge.
What seems to be true is that they had a hold on him. They seemed to abuse his mental weaknesses, and regularly made themselves look like benefactor for “saving him from himself” and making him earn a lot of money.
Sure he could have technically walked out any day, but when you’re under the influence of manipulative “friends”, I’m not sure it’s that easy.
Bear in mind that I’m not stating 100% proven facts.
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Yeah, depending on circumstance I can definitely see a case being made for the streamers having some responsibility.
I don’t see how the platform should be responsible without opening up a can of worms involving censorship. Mastercard has proven we do not want fucking corps having that power.
SculptusPoe@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well. Devil’s advocate, they are holding the streaming service responsible because they didn’t block the stream, which presumably would presumably disrupt the streamer’s actions. I don’t personally think Kick should be responsible at all.
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Yeah, I don’t see how they’re responsible either, but I’m getting lots of emotional replies and nobody actually seems to want to admit they’re advocating censorship. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a thing.
moodymellodrone@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Yeah I don’t think the company should be legally responsible, since the streamers were investigated for abuse and subsequently cleared by police. Was there something the platform was legally obligated to do further? We can say it was morally wrong to allow the streaming of that type of content, yes
mrdown@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Article 223-15-2 of the French Penal Code. This article punishes the fraudulent abuse of the ignorance or state of weakness of a minor or a person whose particular vulnerability is apparent or known due to age, sickness, disability, pregnancy, or psychological dependency
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Whenever you do something that results in the death of another human there needs to be an investigation. From what I can tell no culpability has been found yet, but there is at least some evidence that this person was being held against their will.
However, lots of European countries treat violence like the US treats porn so this could easily be something similar to the pearl clutching that would happen here if somebody was asphyxiated during a BDSM livestream.
dontbelievethis@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Other parties are being held responsible for what?
KumaSudosa@feddit.dk 2 weeks ago
I’d imagine inducing stress and manipulation if anything. Pormanove and the fourth guy were and are both mentally challenged and thus more easily manipulated and coerced. Also no way you don’t see the signs coming from your “friend” after streaming together for more than a year and a half
buddascrayon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The french guy is free to do as he likes in the privacy of his own home. The line in the sand is the streaming of it online. Promoting violence is not ok and Kick should have banned them long before it got to this point
agelord@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
$49 M fine? So, basically, legal for a fee?
Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I googled and apparently kick has been doing 180 million revenue yearly, so this is refreshingly high in terms of a fine.
localhorst@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
So they can do this 3.5 more times before it starts costing them money?!
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
Yes. I saw a video on getting around Flock’s AI cameras and he mentions the numerous million dollar lawsuits that regularly result from misuse of their data and the glitches that cause people to have guns pointed at their heads by police.
It is a cost of doing business. Saying ‘I’ll sue you!’ To them is as threatening as charging someone a little extra for that order of coffee they made.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean, Kick probably could be suspending people who stream for an unhealthily long time, maybe suspend his abusive friends, but they didn’t force him to take any actions resulting in his death imo.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
cost of doing business, as part of thier budget.
CatsGoMOW@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is straight out of Black Mirror S7E1 and the idea behind the “Dum Dummies” site. 😭
tehn00bi@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Black mirror episode IRL.
mrdown@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The autority should be held accountable too since they opened an investigation but did not force the streamers to temporarly stop streaming till the investigation is finished
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I don’t think that’s a real issue. depending on how long this investigation goes, that would either be meaningless loss of revenue for these content creators, or an easy way to destroy the career of any other content creators too if a disgruntled viewer reports them falsely.
mrdown@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The investigation started in December 2024, the abusers was taken into custody then released unconditionally so i don’t see how the authorities are not responsible too
loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
I feel completely out of the loop when stuff like this happens.
I went looking around and found an article that expanded a lot on this topic, maxread.substack.com/p/who-killed-jean-pormanove
LesserAbe@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is helpful, thanks.
Psythik@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Story of my life. Major story drops, article provides little to no context, and everyone in the comments already seems to know what’s going on.
This happens constantly in my life, both online and offline; why does it seem like I’m always being left out?
loudwhisper@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
In this case I am quite happy to be out of the loop, frankly. I can leave in blissful ignorance of at least this stuff.
gianni@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Damn, that was a good read.
Fizz@lemmy.nz 2 weeks ago
Should get double finned for torturing Jean + Raja almost beating someone to death on stream.
ParadoxSeahorse@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Mr Beast offering to pay for Raja’s opponent’s medical bills; he’s frankly lucky what happened to Jean hasn’t happened on his watch tbh. But he’d probably get off
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
mr beast is such attention seeker
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
that was terrible to watch, and i heard all the MMA people defending raja.
Fizz@lemmy.nz 2 weeks ago
The people who work for thr ufc have been defending raja but the mma community wants him in jail. Theyre way to racist to miss this opportunity.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
Can someone point that out the part where this wasn’t voluntary or the guy was held captive & not free to leave or end the voluntary abuse at any time?
Isn’t this idiots kink-playing too hard with extra fines & no accountability?
Viral compilation threads have shown Pormanove being hit, strangled, and fired at with paintball guns while streaming with Naruto and Safine, whose lawyers claim they hold “no responsibility.”
buddascrayon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The company is still at fault for not banning such behavior on their service. Freedom of expression does not mean freedom to be violent and promote violence.
Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Kink playing is ultimately the responsibility of the top, if this was that.
It’s not, because they disregarded that person’s state of well-being in a continued way.
Allero@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
This comment might provide some insights: lemmy.zip/comment/21080783
Also, IMO, voluntary or not, this goes over the edge, especially on the streaming part. If someone genuinely enjoys this, they can do it in private.
When money and popularity get involved, this prompts more extreme behavior, turning a willing masochist into a victim, and a game into a trap.
Besides, authorities could have at least checked up on him.
cyrano@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
From a libé article:
Raphaël Graven, 46, known under the pseudonym Jean Pormanove, died near Nice during a live broadcast on August 18 on the Australian video platform Kick after more than 12 days of live streaming showing him and another man being assaulted and humiliated by two people. Followed by nearly 200,000 viewers, the “Jeanpormanove” channel had for months shown Raphaël Graven being insulted, beaten, having his hair pulled, threatened, and even being shot at without protection with paintball projectiles. According to the channel’s promoters, the content was staged.
Deputy Minister for Digital Affairs Clara Chappaz on Tuesday announced her intention to sue the Kick platform for “breach.” She made the announcement after a meeting convened at Bercy with officials from several ministries (Justice, Interior, Economy) and two independent authorities, accusing Kick of violating the 2004 Digital Trust law.
TheRealKuni@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Good thing Sauber is becoming Audi next season. That’s a lot of money for a title sponsor to lose (and it sounds like they deserve to lose it).
cuerdo@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You are out of frame, Donny
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
devfuuu@lemmy.world [bot] 2 weeks ago
Money truly justifies all.
Womble@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
The title kinda buries the lede there. I thought it was ridiculous to fine a platform just because a streamer happened to die on camera, but no, they were streaming months long abuse and torture of this guy at the hands of his co-streamers.
idntknow@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It is insane how it is even possible to live stream the torture of someone for months without any law enforcement getting involved.
TheMcG@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
They kinda did. The dudes were taken in as part of an ongoing investigation but were then released.
ctvnews.ca/…/outcry-over-french-streamers-death-o…
PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
It’s all over the place on Facebook and Twitter though. There’s dog fighting, cock fighting, monkey abuse showing up on my Facebook home feed every now and then. This shouldn’t be a surprise really.
WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
It’s similar to fear factor—you can authorize quite a lot of things in a contract.
The medical examiner has said that they don’t think his death was caused directly by the treatment during the stream.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
As long as you give a platform to the right wing, laws never apply to you.
jagermo@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
OK, but - could he not leave? Or say “i do not want to”? I don’t get it
iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Nice victim blaming.
mrdown@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
He may have been very emotionally broken that he can’t think rationally . Everybody has completly different tolerability levels. The teo guys who tortured him could still have say no too so they are responsible
WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
He could.
0xSim@lemdro.id 2 weeks ago
“Sure you can leave, but this will end the stream marathon, the three of us will lose money over it, and our community will be quite upset with you. But yeah, you can leave. Alright.”
QueenHawlSera@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Apparently he tried to but they refused
frongt@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Was it real or simulated? I haven’t seen any article make a definitive statement.
Rothe@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Source
_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus 2 weeks ago
Uh, what’s does that matter? Is it ok to stream shit like that if it’s simulated?
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
By how it reads, it kind of looks like more of a Jack-ass situation if voluntary abuse. There was some mention of him getting shot with paint balls. Also, the autopsy report said he had no trauma.
cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Physical trauma maybe
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If that is the case then I’d like to see how aware they were of what was happening. I’d push for criminal charges against management in that case.
oozynozh@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Kick CEO was a top 5 donor to the channel in question. Not only did they know, they actively encouraged it.
Steve@startrek.website 2 weeks ago
The fuck