The IRS Tax Filing Software TurboTax Is Trying to Kill Just Got Open Sourced

Comments

• Vinstaal0@feddit.nl ⁨30⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

  Was the US so behind that they didn’t have a way to file taxes online for free?

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  • Sine_Fine_Belli@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

    Unfortunately yes

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• bitofarambler@crazypeople.online ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  really good article with a couple surprises in there.

  "some people speculated that, because of the political pressure against it, its release must have been an act of resistance by someone within the IRS. But the open sourcing of the program was always part of the plan, and was required by a law called the SHARE IT Act. It happened “fully above board, which is honestly more of a feat!,” Given told 404 Media. “This has been in the works since last year.” "

  Vinton told 404 Media in a phone call that the open sourcing of Direct File “is just good government.”

  “All code paid for by taxpayer dollars should be open source, available for comment, for feedback, for people to build on and for people in other agencies to replicate. It saves everyone money and it is our [taxpayers’] IP,” she said. “This is just good government and should absolutely be the standard that government technologists are held to.”

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  • outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Dunno, sounds like some fucking commie shit to be. And not the kind i can someyimes get on board with when it comes time to do secret police shebanigans, but the bad scary kind where they dont even have a use for police.

    Wouldn’t it be better to just give the code for free to a good corporate citizen who can be entrusted with its stewardship?

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    • bitofarambler@crazypeople.online ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      only if the corporate citizen promise really hard we can trust them. like a super promise.

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    • czl@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Bro why are people downvoting this when it is so clearly a joke

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    • Gladaed@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      /s dude, this is the Internet and you are not a person with a widely known stance.

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    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Wouldn’t it be better to just give the code for free to a good corporate citizen who can be entrusted with its stewardship?

      To be fair, since it’s public domain, anyone can take it, modify it (and not release modifications), and try to screw you over w/ it.

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  • officermike@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    “All code paid for by taxpayer dollars should be open source, available for comment, for feedback, for people to build on and for people in other agencies to replicate. It saves everyone money and it is our [taxpayers’] IP,” she said. “This is just good government and should absolutely be the standard that government technologists are held to.”"

    Nice sentiment, but bad take. Open-sourcing the software that runs our military equipment would be a fantastic gift to the bad actors of the world.

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    • hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      security through obscurity is not security

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    • CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Our entire Internet, the backbone of all encryption, all runs on open source software.

      It is more secure because people can see and audit the code.

      Let me flip what you wrote:

      Our military equipment already is vulnerable. We just don’t know how badly because it’s not open source.

      Prove it’s secure by releasing the code.

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    • TimLovesTech@badatbeing.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      The GitHub page has a section for this:

      Exempted Code

      Not all source code, documentation and metadata used in the development of Direct File is included in this repository. Specifically, any code or data that is considered Personally Identifiable Information (PII), Federal Tax Information (FTI), Sensitive But Unclassified (SBU), or source code developed for National Security Systems (NSS), as defined in 40 U.S.C. § 11103, is exempt. Due to these restrictions, certain pieces of functionality have been removed or rewritten.

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    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      So open sourcing Tor, which protects our foreign operatives, was a bad idea? Implementing secure sockets for the web (TLS) was a bad idea? Publishing security vulnerabilities publicly (CVE system) was a bad idea?

      All of those help our adversaries, but our adversaries also have an incentive to improve the code so everyone benefits.

      Sure, there are probably some things that shouldn’t be released (i.e. something w/ a legitimate national security concern), but by and large, most things should. Tax software absolutely should, because there’s zero reason for the software you use to file your taxes (which is a legal requirement) to not be publicly auditable, because you’re on the hook for any mistakes it makes.

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    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Maybe it’s the military that’s incompatible with our values, not open source

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    • pastermil@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      yet just a few days ago, open source software was the key to destroying dozens of bomber planes in Russia

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    • snek_boi@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      The problem you’re describing (open sourcing critical software) could both increase the capabilities of adversaries and also make it easier for adversaries to search for exploits. Open sourcing defeats security by obscurity.

      Leaving security by obscurity aside could be seen as a loss, but it’s important to note what is gained in the process. Most security researchers today advocate against relying on security by obscurity, and instead focus on security by design and open security. Why?

      Security by obscurity in the digital world is very easily defeated. It’s easy to copy and paste supposedly secure codes. It’s easy to smuggle supposedly secret code. “Today’s NSA secrets become tomorrow’s PhD theses and the next day’s hacker tools.”

      So what’s the alternative? If you can’t secure some and hack others, you’ve got to choose between insecurity for all or security for all. If you rely on security by design and open security for military equipment, it’s possible that adversaries will get a hold of the software, but the attack surface will be smaller than if relying on security by obscurity.

      So, insecurity for all or security for all? I’d go for security for all every time. I want my critical infrastructure without ransomware. I want tyrannical governments out of my private life. I want reliable software. If someone is waging a war, they’re going to have to use methods that can actually create a technical asymmetry of power, and insecure software is not the way to gain the upper hand.

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    • SynonymousStoat@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I’m sure there are exceptions for classified systems. Personally, I do believe all things developed by tax payer money should be released to the public including classified systems, given enough time has passed that the release of such information wouldn’t put anything or anyone at risk.

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    • jawa22@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I am fairly confident that theNSA is aware of this kind of concern and they have an pretty cool repo.

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    • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Watch this thread from here on in carefully separate the idealists from those who know what defence is like.

      • yes, open-source is the goal of everything that can be opened.
      • no, defence code isn’t ont he list of what can be opened
      • yes, obscurity isn’t good as a sole effort
      • yes, defence in depth
      • no the funding to get it to where it’s safe to open for randos to submit changes isn’t there today

      Anything I missed?

      Yes, Virginia, it’s better to open all the things right now, but there are risks you haven’t taken into account because you’re not aware of them. The pros are; it’s their job and their work, so listen to their expertise no matter what the oppositional/defient disorder suggests otherwise.

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    • brucethemoose@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Depends on the application.

      In some cases, it would be fantastic. But it’s clearly not a one size fits all, yeah.

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    • outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Good thing no bad actors have root access. Agreed though; open source software is so notoriously insecure.

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    • OhNoMoreLemmy@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      You know open-source doesn’t mean publicly available. It means the person, or in this case the US government, that brought the software should have free access to the source code to edit and distribute it as they like.

      So yes, the military should use something functional equivalent to open source to prevent vender lock in and to allow for external audits. They probably shouldn’t give it to Russia or make it freely available online though.

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    • DesertDwellingWeirdo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I’m sure a lot of military software, in contrast, is acquired from private companies that retain IP rights. Likely legal exceptions aside.

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    • plz1@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Don’t worry, that’s all written by defense contractors anyways, so they’ll sell it to the US, and to others the US allows, all closed source. The source won’t even be open to the US government, either, as that’d harm the bottom line of the contractor (support & maintenance contracts for that closed-source software).

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  • untakenusername@sh.itjust.works ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    All code paid for by taxpayer dollars should be open source, available for comment, for feedback, for people to build on and for people in other agencies to replicate.

    as long as its not military stuff, I don’t want to be able to download a simulator for nuclear bombs or something on my PC

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• UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  TurboTax owned buy intuit, part of H&R block who has partnered with credit karma. Everything is a monopoly now

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  • smashing3606@feddit.online ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I'm pretty sure intuit and h&r block are competitors, not the same compamy.

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    • TachyonTele@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      You are correct.

      Here’s an annoying thing i just learned about H&R Block:

      As of 2022, H&R Block’s tax preparation service shares user data with Facebook, which can be used for targeted advertising. This can include sensitive financial information from health savings accounts and college expenses, and this tax data is shared without consent even for users who opt out of the service.

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  • CluckN@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Yeah I saw Monopoly Fortnite I wonder what is next?

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    • raltoid@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I know, what are they making next? Lord of the Rings edition? Star Wars? Oh the humanities.

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• eager_eagle@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Repo: github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file

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  • dhork@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Hurry up and clone that ASAP, this is gonna get taken down once they realize what it is

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    • ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      More likely they’ll just turn off or unpublish the API that it depends on.

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    • scott@lemmy.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      That was my thought too and I did so but it’s been up for over a week now.

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Comment from the first PR:

    because this is the first pull request and something many people will see, I would like to say that I learned from a former project manager at the IRS that development on Direct File has stopped since January. the source code is only public because of federal law. it’s not likely that this is going to be merged but it’s possible that the components of Direct File might be used elsewhere

    Don’t get your hopes up too much.

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  • Kowowow@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I wonder if this could be altered to work for other countries

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    • gian@lemmy.grys.it ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It would be nice but I think it is not really possible. Too many difference in the laws I suppose.

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    • iknowitwheniseeit@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      We’ve already got free software for filing taxes, kthxbye!

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    • SabinStargem@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I can see the EU funding it. This could be a measure to allow Blue States circumvent the federal system - a CaliTAX, AlohaTAX, ect. This would be vital during a civil war scenario, so that the Blue States can having working taxation systems without having to redo everything.

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• eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Oh that’s awesome. I hope it can still be accepted by the IRS for the future (if we still have one in ~3 years) but it would be neat to just be able to have an open standard for online filing.

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• LorIps@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It’s licensed under CC0 to anyone wondering. BSD 0-Clause would probably be better but still fantastic.

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  • JackbyDev@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    CC0 is a horrible thing to use for software. It seems great, but it specifically does not give patent rights. Compare that to MIT which implicitly does so. CC0 specifically says it does not.

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    • Landslide7648@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨16⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

      Could you explain why this is bad? Software patents aren’t a great thing, are they?

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• JackbyDev@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file

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• Smoogs@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  What happened to the title of this?? Jeez

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  • OccasionallyFeralya@lemmy.ml ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    “The IRS Tax Filing Software that TurboTax Is Trying to Kill Just Got Open Sourced” might be more clear but headlines try to cut those sorts of words out, unfortunately at the cost of readability sometimes.

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  • jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    They accidentally included 8 verbs. (tax, filing, is, trying, kill, got, open, sourced)

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    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      But most of those aren’t used as verbs here.

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• HawlSera@lemm.ee ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I got told I couldn’t get a tax return because they flagged me for potential fraud, so I have to go to ID.me to verify… but then my account got banned while trying to verify my information.

  Fml

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  • JackbyDev@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I love id.me, I’m so glad I had to give my facial data to them to collect unemployment insurance!

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Guess that means they don’t want your money! Woo! (this is not legal advice, pay your taxes)

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• Olgratin_Magmatoe@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  It’s already got 4 PRs

  lol

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  • jayandp@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    7 open now, 2 closed

    XD

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    • Olgratin_Magmatoe@startrek.website ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      One of the currently open ones is this one:

      github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/pull/11

      Hilarious

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• bdonvr@thelemmy.club ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Unless it’s maintained it won’t be of much use. It needs to be kept up to date with tax laws, and it relies entirely on the IRS accepting the generated returns. It seems it may function for now, though.

  Direct File interprets the United States’ Internal Revenue Code (26 USC) as plain language questions, the answers to which should be known to taxpayers without need of external instructions or publications. Taxpayers’ answers are then translated into standard tax forms and transmitted to the IRS’s Modernized e-File (MeF) API, which is available for authorized public use

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  • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Linux geeks, assemble!

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    • WhiteRice@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Image

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    • axEl7fB5@lemmy.cafe ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Web devs too!

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  • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Direct File is maintained by the IRS themselves though. So I would imagine it will be alright.

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  • LordCrom@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    The code to generate the forms should be simple enough… But the amounts, the deductions, the laws, the rules…etc, these all need to be checked by an accountant or lawyer… It might be a good method to double check a return, but if the return isn’t guaranteed to be correct by the IRS or an accountant is checking details…I would be worried

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• fluxion@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Suck a bag of dicks, TurboTax

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• demizerone@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  The more money you pay someone to find the loop holes in the tax code the less likely you are to support out government and its war machine.

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• fiddledeedee@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  HA get fucked turbotax

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• SabinStargem@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  THIS is the way.

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• smikwily@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Archive of the full article: archive.ph/6qJ6v

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• Xanza@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  hahahahahaha!

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• finitebanjo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Lmao, nice

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