Why most countries are struggling to shut down 2G.

Submitted ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Tea@programming.dev⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://restofworld.org/2025/shutting-down-2g-networks-phones-obsolete/?

Global leap to 4G and 5G would cut off phone access for millions of vulnerable people.

Telecom companies aim to profit from the 2G-to-5G transition as governments worldwide face pressure to free up mobile spectrum.

Vietnam is the latest country to shut down 2G by offering free 4G phones to the poor.

India and South Africa have expressed concern that the strategy would cut off phone access for millions of vulnerable people.

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Fake4000@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
You will be surprised how many old people rely on health monitoring devices that use 2G to send basic data.

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- henfredemars@infosec.pub ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Not just old people. I had a heart monitor a couple years ago that’s only made for 2G.
  
  Alright maybe I’m getting old but that’s not the point.
  
  When I was visiting the Caribbean they also had a lot of 2G infrastructure still operating.
  
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  - Revered_Beard@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    It sounds like there’s a really big market opportunity for somebody to make a portable transceiver that converts 2G and 3G signals into 5G…
    
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LaggyKar@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
A big blocker that the article surprisingly doesn’t talk about is tons of IoT stuff that uses 2G and 3G. Stuff like alarm systems, emergency phones, street light control, cars etc. Here in Sweden there was recently a report that thousands of elevators have emergency phones using 2G and 3G, and if the network is shut down you would no longer be allowed to use those elevators. And since 2018 all new cars in the EU has to have eCall, which alerts emergency services on a crash. Many of these use 2G and 3G, and if it stops working the car won’t pass inspection so you’ll no longer be allowed to drive it.

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- Mad_Punda@feddit.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I was considering buying a used car made in 2023. It uses 2G/3G. It has some connected services I actually wanted to use. And well, the ecall obviously. It’s really not an old car yet, but it becomes obsolete already.
  
  On the manufacturer’s website they say that new car models need to have 4G/5G only by 2026. And starting 2027 all cars sold must have it. 2027 is also when they expect 2G to be fully shut down in the country. This timeline makes no sense for devices with a long life span.
  
  In the website they also say you wouldn’t fail inspection though. But honestly I don’t care too much about that, since I actually care about ecall and some other connected services.
  
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  - LoveSausage@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I hope my 2023 car only have it so I can get rid of the spyware in my car. In this case obsolescence feels fine
    
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- captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I have a feeling we’re going to regret a lot of the “From 201x all new cars have to have ibuttfuck.” It’s like paying to be assimilated by the goddamn Borg.
  
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aceshigh@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I’m in a recovery group and someone shared how dangerous 5G was and that they have to move again because there is too much 5G in their area…. I’m still dumbfounded.

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- cows_are_underrated@feddit.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I am still baffled by these idiots after I learned how 5g works. It isn’t just frequencies increases (I could see why someone might be sceptical about this one). The main difference is simply using another protocol which allows to send more bits with a single signal.
  
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  - limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Not yet another protocol invading me brain!?? For all I know the different pattern of signal does things to my delicate nets.
    
    I already had to contend with the fridge and garage door
    
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  - turmacar@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    If there is any thought to it, it usually goes something like “Radio is/was fine because it’s kilo/megahertz, Wifi/5G is gigahertz waves of electromagnetic radiation.(?!?!)”
    
    Could always point to the Terahertz electromagnetic radiation source plugged into their nearest lightbulb socket and ask how that doesn’t hurt them.
    
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- Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Recovery from brain injury?
  
  /sorry
  
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pineapplelover@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Well 2g is good because it reaches be further doesn’t it? Say if you’re in the wilderness, there’s a slim chance 2G might work

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- sunbeam60@lemmy.one ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I live outside of a big city in the UK. Many times I can ONLY get 2G.
  
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  - Swarfega@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Same here. Many providers turned off 3G so I either see 4G or 2G. 2G is so slow it may as well not exist.
    
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- FiskFisk33@startrek.website ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  the 5g standard includes many frequencies, including long range 2g-like ~400Mhz ones
  
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  - captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’m a ham radio operator; it just feels weird hearing someone call 400 MHz “long range.” Above, say, 60 MHz I wouldn’t count on anything beyond line-of-sight anyway, though I suppose the lower in the UHF band you are the more likely you are to punch through leaves and such.
    
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Armand1@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
We switched off 3G this year in the UK and my brothers phone stopped being able to make calls. He was using a 6 year old high-end Android phone, but it was from just before the cutoff where you could turn on VoLTE (calls over 4G).

Thankfully, I had a spare phone from the next year after that to hand him, and that one could work with some hidden menu (the type you type into your dialer) hacking.

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- madis@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Why couldn’t you turn off 3G on that old phone via that same hidden menu? Or how come the phone didn’t even recognize that it can fall back to 2G…
  
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  - Zanz@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Due to marketing b*******, most things labeled as 3G are actually 2G.So networks don’t support both two and three g. Then things that are actually 3G like hspda and L.T.E are marketed as four g , so it’s just very confusing between all of it. They want to shut down the 2G.Networks that are edge and gsm.And they want to shut down the one g network that’s cdma. Depending on your service that could be marketed as 123 or even four g.
    
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  - Armand1@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    2G is also gone.
    
    www.ofcom.org.uk/…/3g-switch-off/
    
    The old phone was a couple years into 4G existing but before we started to send voice over it.
    
    I assume it just wasn’t in the OS-level code. It only went up to Android 11. We could have tried LineageOS but that would have required a bunch of work including wiping the phone.
    
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Geodad@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
They don’t want to. Stingray devices force a phone to fall back on 2G so they can spy on it.

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shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
subsidize 4G and 5G devices and shut off 3G and just leave 2G alone for a while. It’s not like it takes up that much bandwidth. A couple of hundred kilohertz is not going to make a difference on 5G.

You can get like 5 or 10 megahertz off of 3G, which actually would be something worth pulling off and moving to 5G. But the couple hundred kilohertz on 2G is just not going to make that much of a difference.

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- piecat@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  There’s a lot of hidden cost associated with supporting legacy features/standards/technology
  
  Do they have different frequencies? Require different antennas?
  
  Are there cost implications for radios / amplifiers? Do ASICs support only newer modes? How much obsoleted / legacy HW is required?
  
  And that’s just from a manufacturer standpoint.
  
  Are more licenses required? Or other regulatory impacts?
  
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  - shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Yeah, that’s a good point.
    
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- octobob@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I think a lot of rural areas in the US still rely on 3G. I’ve definitely seen my phone switch to it out in the sticks
  
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  - shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    What carrier is this? I know for a fact that T-Mobile has shut down their 3G network and I thought AT&T and Verizon did as well, but I can’t swear to that. I know for a fact that AT&T has already shut down their 2G network though.
    
    Anywhere where a 3G signal would be used, 2G will be used if the 3G is not available.
    
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SplashJackson@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
what benefits does 5g offer over 2g?

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- WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  lower range. oh you said benefits?
  
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  - Revan343@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Higher bandwidth
    
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- cynar@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  5g is a lot more capable and flexible compared to older generations. The main one is a massive increase in capacity, for the same frequency allocations. Compounding with this is that it can be directional. This allows several phones to use the exact same channel simultaneously, so long as they are positioned at different angles to the tower.
  
  5g also uses more frequency bands, allowing even more data to be moved around. Unfortunately, 2g has most of the lower frequencies, higher frequencies carry more data, but have less penetration into buildings.
  
  Finally, 5g allows for priority and context awareness. E.g. the police can have their phones prioritised, or VoIP calls given priority over video streaming. It can also trade bandwidth for range. This allows a tower to either reach further to cover a larger area, or focus down, to provide more bandwidth locally.
  
  In theory 5g could have a similar range to 2g. However, that rarely happens. It requires it using the lower frequencies, that 2g currently uses, and well as dropping its data rate to improve range. Most of the time it’s optimised for shorter range, and more towers using higher frequencies. This gives impression of a far smaller range. But give a huge increase is available bandwidth.
  
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  - SplashJackson@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Thanks for the real answer! If it cna be directional, presumably this would be good for positioning as well?
    
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- Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The “g” stands for generation. So it’s the 5th iteration of the technology versus the 2nd iteration. Whilst there are many improvements (speed, capacity, security etc) there are some negatives. (I believe mainly to do with signal penetration - i.e. getting a signal in basements, stone wall houses, being behind objects etc.)
  
  Where I’m currently staying I have: 2G, edge, 4G and 5G signals available.
  
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- Tea@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  [Not Serious] 3 numbers more.
  
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  - SplashJackson@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Ah, well, my G goes to 11
    
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- FooBarrington@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  5g > 2g if g is positive
  
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  - Tenkard@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Aktchually g gets simplified so it’s 5 > 2 for any value
    
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  - dustyData@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    What if g is a complex number?
    
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- Allero@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Obviously speed, plus there are many good technical changes under the hood, such as proper isolation of calls etc.
  
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  - Excigma@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I think it handles congestion better and saves energy for the cell tower. It’s a good choice for crowded city centres, near university campuses and train stations where many people frequent
    
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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
So is the difference between 2g, 3g, 4g and 5g that they use different channels/frequencies, different communication protocols, or both?

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- sushibowl@feddit.nl ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Both, really. There’s been encoding improvements every generation, but they also use different slices of the spectrum.
  
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- stardreamer@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  There’s also changing from circuit to packet switching, which also drastically changes how the handover process works.
  
  tl;Dr - handover in 5G is buggy and barely works. The whole thing of switching from one service area to another in the middle of a call is held together by hopes and dreams.
  
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- Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Both of those, and also different signal modulation.
  
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madis@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Well, they shouldn’t turn it off any time soon, just like they don’t turn off analog radio. TV is one I can understand where turning off old methods makes sense, because people upgrade their TVs and use IPTV much more likely anyway.

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- BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  You update your TV more than your phone? I don’t feel that’s the regular way of things.
  
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  - EngineerGaming@feddit.nl ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    You don’t have to upgrade the TV itself. If the TV cannot handle the new format on its own, external box is enough.
    
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  - madis@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I meant like the elderly might still be using a dumb phone, but not a CRT TV.
    
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- Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  just like they don’t turn off analog radio
  
  Got bad news for you. They are starting in some places.
  
  The Swiss public broadcaster shut down it’s FM channels at the turn of 2024 to 2025, at the end of next year all of the others have to shut down as well. It’s moving to DAB+ only, it’s a big pain for older cars.
  
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Bieren@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
It’s because they still have human targets out there that are only compatible with 2g. The humans haven’t gotten their 5g implants yet.

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subiacOSB@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Well I got the Covid vaccine. I’m screwed I am 5g already.

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jackyard@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Well they may say 4G phones are expensive but in my country older 2G phones are absurdly expensive claiming they are “collectors item” whilest used Google Nexus 5Xes sell off at 10$…

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