Why is the Google play store a monopoly if you can sideload apps, but the Apple store isn’t one although you can’t sideload apps? I’m not pro-Google, I’m just trying to understand.
Epic judge says he’ll ‘tear the barriers down’ on Google’s app store monopoly
Submitted 3 months ago by Xatolos@reddthat.com to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/14/24220491/epic-google-android-app-store-monopoly-remedies-hearing
Comments
rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Ok, I’m going to preface this by saying I don’t agree with the ethics of this, because I’ve been shot for just being the messenger in the past when I’ve spoken about this. That somehow by explaining the situation it means I’m sliding with Google or Apple. I am not.
But it’s because the case and the judge aren’t ruling on it from a Google > smartphone user POV (where Apple’s store is objectively even more of a monopoly than the Play Store).
They’re looking at it from a Google > phone OEM POV. Google effectively forces companies to use the play store, otherwise they can’t access Android functionality that has been shifted to play services, they don’t get to upstream patches to AOSP, they can’t access Google Apps (which are effectively required if you want to have people buy your device). Google enforces that OEMs don’t have alternative app stores set as the default. Etc.
Apple has no such equivalent. They aren’t forcing anything on OEMs, because they themselves are the OEM. If the only phones with a Play Store were Google’s own Pixel phones, the ruling would’ve went like Apple’s.
The case is about Google abusing their market position to push OEMs into using the Play Store. Not end users.
rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
That makes sense, thanks
Cadeillac@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Just to add, there are multiple app stores available for Android devices. I hate Google, but this seems like an odd attack at first glance
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Yup, I use F-Droid for most of my apps, and Aurora as an anonymous FE to the Play store. I also have a couple apps sideloaded.
umami_wasbi@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
How about the Google Play as system app status? I would like to see that gone too.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 3 months ago
The problem is that there are very good reasons to have specific authoritative app stores/package repositories. and it is a lot harder to have privileged and unprivileged accounts on a phone versus a computer.
But yeah. Something has to be done about that since it is the fundamental issue with mobile devices.
Altomes@lemm.ee 3 months ago
I mean as someone running Graphene OS it hasnt been that difficult having the playstore being a sandboxed non system app
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Almost like those systems were designed to be monopolistic and anti-competitive from the very beginning…
NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 3 months ago
it is a lot harder to have privileged and unprivileged accounts on a phone versus a computer.
True. But it shouldn’t be.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Is it though? I have three profiles on my phone:
- main - all my normal apps; no Google Play whatsoever
- work - work apps; Google Play services running
- google - Google stuff (like Google Maps and whatnot); Google Play services running
This is on GrapheneOS, and they basically just ship AOSP with some patches on top.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Now do Apple.
At least you can have a third party app store on Android. Samsung, Amazon, and Xiaomi have their own app stores on Android devices. And there’s F-Droid, too. But that’s flat out impossible on iOS still, right?
Apple has a larger share of the US smartphone market (55-some-odd percent vs. Androids’s 44) so not only do more people have Apple devices and are thus likely to be impacted by Apple’s stranglehold on their platform, but you literally cannot put any app on that platform without Apple’s approval and kowtowing to their policies for the same, in addition to them taking a mandatory cut. (Yes, I am aware of jailbroken devices which is a tiny statistically insignificant fractional corner of the iPhone user base). Apple has already provably stifled competition in the iPhone app space by, e.g., prohibiting any web browser that does not internally use the Safari rendering engine and previously banning emulators because they might allow “external code” to run on the device.
This case isn’t a “win” for anybody except one megacorporation over another. The crux of the issue originally was that Epic thought Google was taking too big of a cut of their revenue, and didn’t want Google tampering with their in-app microtransactions. Both Google and Apple retaliated by delisting Fortnite for having untaxed microtransactions in it, and then Epic sued both of them.
The decisions in the Epic vs. Google and Epic vs. Apple cases are basically opposites of each other, which makes zero sense when anyone could (and still can) sideload Fortnite onto an Android device if they wanted to and not deal with Google, but this is still not possible on an iPhone.
Username@feddit.org 2 months ago
Apple already lost in the EU and need to allow other app stores
refurbishedrefurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org 2 months ago
Other app stores that are approved by Apple while giving Apple a cut after a million downloads of an app.
You still can’t install whatever .ipa file you want on iOS, even in Europe.
What really needs to happen is that the consumer needs to own the device they bought. What this means in the smartphone world is a few things: root access, unlockable bootloader, and replacable signing keys for the primary bootloader while providing a firmware package to go back to 100% stock (so no Samsung Knox that irrevocably triggers after unlocking the bootloader, or DRM keys that get irrevocably wiped when unlocking the bootloader) (all of these being optional features that the user has to explicitly enable). Anything short of that is not ownership.
nooneescapesthelaw@mander.xyz 2 months ago
Google was giving preferential treatment to certain companies and had a bunch of backroom deals going on and generally very anticompetitive behavior.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 months ago
Right but is that actually illegal given the fact that you can sideload apps it’s not like they’re locking people out of their devices.
I don’t like it but I’m not sure it necessarily meets the criteria for illegality.
This makes this decision seem stupid. I have quite understand how US law works but I thought it was precedent based which meant that once one case had been decided that essentially decided all similar cases unless they were demonstrably different. I don’t understand why that isn’t the case here.
9point6@lemmy.world 2 months ago
MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I want this guy tearing down Apple completely
Xatolos@reddthat.com 2 months ago
Apple had a different judge and they said that it’s ok what Apple does with iOS and it’s app store.
MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Exactly, we need to replace all tech decision-making thinkers in the government with this guy. And pay him to rip corporate CEOs into shreds.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 months ago
It would be nice if maybe the judge is actually knew what they were talking about. I’m not entirely clear I understand what would change here you can already sideload apps in fact if you get an Samsung phone I’m pretty sure Samsung app store is pre-installed.
No one uses it, that’s because it’s terrible and doesn’t contain anything that isn’t in the regular app store but it’s allowed and you don’t have to do any hacking or anything.
Apple though…
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Half, if not more, of the apps on my Android phone come from F-Droid.
kandoh@reddthat.com 2 months ago
Google | Microsoft | Apple
If we can break these companies into dozens of pieces we may be able to get back the world we lost
echodot@feddit.uk 2 months ago
Google can be broken up into 40 different messaging companies at least.
N0body@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
“We’re going to tear the barriers down, it’s just the way it’s going to happen,” said Donato. “The world that exists today is the product of monopolistic conduct. That world is changing.” Donato will issue his final ruling in a little over two weeks.
The hero we need…
helenslunch@feddit.nl 2 months ago
It’s a nice thought, but talk is cheap and I’m not holding my breath.
leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 2 months ago
What monopoly…?
There’s multiple app stores for Android, and you can just download and manually install apps if you don’t like any of them… it’s Apple that doesn’t want third party stores in their phones…
militaryintelligence@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I’m sure this will be done with consumers in mind and won’t contribute to enshittification of the phone ecosystem, like launching a game on steam launching a whole new launcher. Nah, companies want what’s best for us