I always worry that it will get bought out by some asshole company and we’ll be even worse off than with Google (if that’s even possible).
Why I ditched Gmail for Proton Mail
Submitted 10 months ago by AnActOfCreation@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.androidpolice.com/why-i-ditched-gmail-for-proton-mail/
Comments
_sideffect@lemmy.world 10 months ago
zkfcfbzr@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Hi, this is Andy here, the Founder/CEO of Proton. As former scientists, we don’t do what we’re doing to make the most money (otherwise we wouldn’t have picked science as a profession). There’s no price which we would sell Proton to Google or Facebook. We also don’t need to because thanks to the strong support of the community, Proton has the resources to thrive and grow as an independent organization. Safeguarding this independence is how we ensure that over the long term, we can always put user interest above all else.
-Protonmail Founder, 2 years ago, for what it’s worth.
bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
Google’s motto used to be “don’t be evil”
Companies can change.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Trust, but verify.
I want to see some assurance. I don’t know Switzerland’s laws, but if there’s a concept of a “social purpose company” or something with actual legal teeth, that would make me a bit more comfortable.
They’re certainly better than Google, and I like that their products are audited, but words from their founder don’t need much, especially if the founder decides to leave.
CyberSeeker@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
That’s the benefit of a custom domain, I suppose; you can always change he provider without changing your email.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Yup, I just signed up for Tuta with a custom domain. If they start sucking, I’ll move to Proton or something else.
deweydecibel@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Problem is with the way email security is going now, it’s entirely possible in a few years, if your domain/provider isn’t an established one, it will get blocked by others.
I’ve had a few domain just straight up block some Tutamail emails.
But here’s the other issue: Proton and Tutanota are both not going to make it easy on you to move your mail.
lemmyvore@feddit.nl 10 months ago
You can switch MX records but not necessarily your mail storage. You need IMAP for that, and IMAP with Proton currently requires jumping through some hoops and it may be discontinued in the near future.
They’ve never given any guarantees regarding IMAP and they actually seem to consider it a negative so that remains a dubious point with me.
nbailey@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
It’s unlikely but not impossible. I’ve been using PM with a custom domain for about five years now, and never thought too hard about leaving.
In an ideal world, a company like ProtonMail would be cooperatively owned by the workers and paying users, sort of like a credit union.
Pragmatically, they’ve done fine stewardship of the service for the last decade or so they’ve been around. A big part of it is that their value proposition depends on stability and trust. But it could be better.
sramder@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I value my privacy and have an extra $7 to blow every month.
Bleep boop, this summary has saved you 99.9%… just kidding i’m not a bot and have no idea what the article says ;-)
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
You’re pretty close, the thing you missed is, “Google is creepy.”
sramder@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Everyone’s creepy uncle… to creep to fail… this wants to be a Weinstein joke, but not today :-(

1boiledpotato@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Obligatory video from one of the greatest channels youtube has ever seen: youtu.be/iH626CXyNtE
RalfWausE@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
Has really everyone fogotten that you can use tools like GPG? What fucked up timeline is this?
drislands@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Honest question: how many email-havers do you think know what GPG is?
CriticalMiss@lemmy.world 10 months ago
GPG has a chicken and egg problem. I have mine publicized on Ubuntu’s key server, which is likely one of the bigger ones (but iirc it is of little relevance as it syncs with other keyservers). Out of the emails I am sent only one of my contacts bothers with encryption. Which is sad, but what can you do? The web mail interfaces rarely if ever support GPG, and even if they do sharing your key with them defeats the purpose.
fossphi@lemm.ee 10 months ago
His notes video is also fantastic! I really wish he made some more videos.
Also would be interesting to see his take after skiff got bought by notion
femboy_bird@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 months ago
I think it is important to understand that email never will be very secure because the standard wasn’t made with modern threat models in mind, if you want to communicate privately and anonymously, you need modern protocols like signal, i also use proton but only because I hate Google, i don’t expect my emails are any more private than they have ever been. I use email only when it is required, I use signal for private communication, overlap is impossible
BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Your emails are.more private in the same sense that if you have a letter with something on it, turning it over means someone can’t read it over your shoulder, but they could have read it before it got to you.
Google has access to the contents of your inbox, Proton mail does not. But the protocols are unchanged and unencrypted email is accessible in transit.
So moving to Proton is a definite improvement, particularly as email remains a basic means of communication. But as you say if you wand secure communication then it is very flawed.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
But you can get secure email if you’re the sender (you can choose to encrypt) or it’s coming from someone else at Proton.
But yeah, there should be a secure alternative, perhaps an amendment to SMTP where only the “to” address is available. If I have the public key of the receiver, I can encrypt everything else and my email could still be routed properly.
vividspecter@lemm.ee 10 months ago
It’s useful to minimize data leaks too, since (especially when combined with simple login etc) you can avoid giving out your real address ever.
PlexSheep@infosec.pub 10 months ago
I recently migrated my email hosting away from proton. I paid for unlimited for almost a year, but I just couldn’t take the missing features anymore. Maybe some of the missing features can be justified by security reasons, but some is just laughable.
If you want to use a proper email client, you need to host proton bridge in your local computer. You can only host imap and SMTP on localhost. Headless is not really supported, so good luck if you want your server to email you logs. Use VMs or docker containers? Fuck you.
On android, the only option is using their crappy mail client. For example, this client has not functionality to select all Mail from a folder if you want to archive it or mark as read. You have to select every single Mail one at a time.
Proton drive can only be used over the Webinterface or with some windows (gui) client. No automating your backups to be pushed there.
I switched to mailbox.org, which has weird 2fa but besides that makes my happy by just working with the damn standards. Not like email transfer is unencrypted when using STARTLS. Security is important, but for me personally, usuability has to be at least good enough.
iiGxC@slrpnk.net 10 months ago
Agreed. I switched to tuta, which doesn’t depend on google play services on android, and is on fdroid.
I also switched cause protonvpn doesn’t have ipv6, and on linux requires networkmanager (i use iwd), and you can’t use wireguard without downloading files and configuring wireguard yourself. Mullvad has been much better
malloc@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I have been exploring self hosting my email.
Docker mail server for backend. Roundcube for web ui
Still keeping accounts at mainstream providers though as backup, especially for outgoing mail.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
You can just use a custom domain at Tuta, Proton, or any of the other email providers until you decide to self-host. Honestly, I don’t think self-hosting is worth it, I value the spam filtering and uptime that major providers offer.
PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world 10 months ago
What happens when you self host email but your home is offline just as someone tries to send you an email?
Will their mail bounce? Vanish?
JoMomma@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Register a domain, Postfix, spamassassin, freebsd jails… Do it like we did in the early 2000s, it never got better
AtariDump@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Don’t.
Not only is it not worth the hassle most home ISPs block port 25 to avoid compromised computers sending out spam.
fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
Friends don’t let friends selfhost email.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Moving email seems like such a PITA, I don’t think I would move unless to self hosting.
Shadow@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
Self hosting email is even more of a pain.
SanicHegehog@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Good lord yes
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Assuredly.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Move it to a custom domain and host it at Proton or Tuta. That way it’s a pain once, and then you don’t have to switch email addresses ever again.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Smart.
deweydecibel@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Unless those companies get bought out down the road and trashed, and you need to move to a new one.
Swarfega@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Yes. I did it recently but the way I did it means moving all 300+ websites that I have logins for is now done in seconds.
I signed up for SimpleLogin and a custom domain. I then went around creating aliases for all these sites. Changing the sites is indeed the worst part. Still, this is the last time I ever do it. All my aliases were pointing to my Gmail account. Once I’d finished I settled on Proton. I just moved all my aliases to my Proton email address.
No one knows my Proton email address other than SimpleLogin.
I haven’t but can now ditch Gmail. I still keep the account for a number of reasons but none are for emails.
I’ve also been testing Tutamail. I can get aliases to go to multiple mailboxes. I have the ability to respond to the emails from either Tuta or Proton and the recipient is none the wiser of where my mailbox resides.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I’ll keep this all in mind. Thank you.
dracs@programming.dev 10 months ago
It certainly can be a bit involved. When I moved from Gmail address to my own personal domain I did it slowly over a few months.
I set my Gmail address to automatically forward to my new email address. Then I setup a quick filter which added a label on everything that had been forwarded. Once a week or so I would look at all the emails that had been forwarded and update them to my new email (or delete them if unwanted).
Evotech@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Did the same thing. Took about a year… Just do one site at a time.
Bogasse@lemmy.ml 10 months ago
My only criteria when switching email was to be able to use my own domain name. Now I almost don’t receive anything on my gmail and I can transparently switch provider. I think it was a relevant move, I won’t move to self hosting but I could ! :)
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Some services don’t send verification letters to Proton and it’s site banned by the address in fucked-up authoritarian countries, both for having less control over what it is and easy registration. I want them to explore some multi-site hydra approach so they can’t get put out of the game that easily. Moving your emails here means you can’t rely on a hope it would work tomorrow.
Kjev@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
At the end of the day. The main thing people should be aware of is that Cloud Storage is basically you keeping your data on someone else’s computer so you must assume as a rule of thumb that that data is vulnerable even if it is allegedly encrypted.
Now Proton has its own share of controversies which make its advertising of Privacy less trustworthy, at least in my eyes. I won’t go into details so feel free to do your own research, it will only take a couple web searches.
I personally also use Proton Mail for work but I always try to never communicate anything through it that I feel is risky in the context of my critical personal info.
Self Hosting is not the best solution when it comes to Mail Servers because of the whole domain trust issue yada yada as far as I am aware. (I don’t have the resources or the money to self host so I am going through someone else’s shared experience.) But it’s definitely the most concrete solution for privacy.
azalty@jlai.lu 10 months ago
Didn’t know google did shady things with our mail
skeezix@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Welcome to Earth
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
BaardFigur@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Protons free service doesn’t offer mail forwarding. Free gmail does that. Which means that in many ways, protonmail will lock you in. Which is not great.
If you’re gonna switch protonmail, at least use a custom domain. At least then, you can easily switch your provider, without having to change address.
MysteriousSophon21@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Why does this whole article feel like an advertisement?
Cras@feddit.uk 10 months ago
Proton shilling on Lemmy is huge business. I have nothing to say one way or the other on the products but it really puts me off.
TypicalHog@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Because Proton Mail is just THAT GOOD!
jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 10 months ago
I was looking at it too but went for mxroute.com because they offer a very minimalistic plan without up selling.
I also found some vaucher where I paid $45 for three years with 10GB mail, unlimited domains and email addresses.
VonReposti@feddit.dk 10 months ago
Does mxroute support a multi-user setup, say one for each family member?
I’m currently looking at switching to a new provider and haven’t found the perfect replacement yet.
Matt@lemdro.id 10 months ago
Yes. With MXroute, you pay for storage and can create as many accounts, emails, aliases, etc. as you want.
jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 10 months ago
I’m not sure what you mean. I’m using it for my family but I’m setting up the Email addresses, so I don’t think every family member can be admin, no.
fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
I recently migrated from fastmail to mxroute.
Fastmail is amazing & beautiful but their pricing is just obnoxious now.
mxroute is perfectly serviceable, if a little clunky, and a fraction of the cost.
BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de 10 months ago
I don't understand why anyone is using gmail as their main mail account. I really don't like the interface and using it with 3rd party apps like thunderbird, K9 mail or any other client just sucks
gaylord_fartmaster@lemmy.world 10 months ago
How? I’ve never had any issues using gmail with Thunderbird on desktop or FairEmail on Android. By comparison, Proton mail I could get working in Thunderbird with Proton’s mail bridge, but on Android I’d be stuck using their app.
Until the entire email protocol changes there are basically just no truly good options.
BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de 10 months ago
I just use posteo and that works with every client from everywhere. I was not saying "gmail sucks proton mail good". I don't use proton mail. But using gmail with their weird Folder structure I get notifications about new mail basically 3 times because it is in 3 folders at the same time... It works with their interface (and probably app) but with nothing else...
Evotech@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Because they make an account 20 years ago and it’s too much of a pita to change now
Also it’s probably the best email provider in the world, privacy asode
Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 10 months ago
What do people think about paying for cloud storage with Proton? Is it safer than Dropbox?
capital@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Just encrypt before upload and you don’t even need to worry about it.
Plaksys@feddit.de 10 months ago
But Proton makes encryption the default and way easier and accessible for most people.
magikmw@lemm.ee 10 months ago
For cold storage it makes sense, but I always consider UX - there’s not enough solutions that make private key encryption, especially remote, as easy as opening a link or mounting to a directory.
I’ve used s3ql before, and it’s really nice for making the encryption transparent. Not something pre-encrypting before dropbox upload can provide.
More, you wanna share those files via dropbox native tools? The recipient better have your private key or you need to reencrypt specifically for them.Mentioned tool: github.com/s3ql/s3ql
TypicalHog@lemm.ee 10 months ago
PROTON GANG!
cflewis@programming.dev 10 months ago
Id like to move to Proton, but goodness are there no good usernames left.
voracitude@lemmy.world 10 months ago
For anyone using a custom domain, or thinking about it, read this: dmarcly.com/…/how-to-implement-dmarc-dkim-spf-to-…
Without these records you’re a lot more likely to go to spam, or get rejected outright. If you have questions about it, ask here or DM me and I’ll be glad to help.
1boiledpotato@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Recently I added a custom domain to my protonmail account and during the procedure it makes you do this steps (adding SPD, DKIM and DMARC) to pass all the steps. They tell you exactly what records you have to add, where to add them and what the content should be. These guys are great
SupraMario@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Yep, setup mine about a year ago now, since I’m trying to get rid of Google completely, and it walks you through all of this. It was really well done setup.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Same with Tuta, which I did last weekend.
ohlaph@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Doing the lords work
aBundleOfFerrets@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
All domains you purchase through cloudflare have a fancy button on the gui to add dmarc and dkim that just say “reject” so people can’t pretend to email from your domain, pretty neat feature imo. (Not actually useful if you are trying to use it as a custom email domain though, lol)
Evotech@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Protonmail basically forced you trough this when adding a domain no?
asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Yes
HessiaNerd@lemmy.world 10 months ago
This is very helpful, thank you.
lemmyvore@feddit.nl 10 months ago
My email provider (Migadu) gave me all the DNS entries I needed when I signed up my domain to them.
fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
I think they all do?
I don’t really understand the need for a guide TBH. If you can set your mx then you can do the rest, and your provider will tell you if it’s not done.