Comment on US to impose tariffs on Chinese EVs next week

• Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That $10k Chinese car cost $20k to make. A competitor undercutting the market that much leads to monopolization. When that competitor is being bankrolled by a foreign government it’s potentially even a hostile act.

  People have been mad for decades about what Walmart did to retail in the US. Taking steps to prevent that from also happening with the auto industry should be appreciated.

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  • tsonfeir@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    When they show me their manufacturing costs, I’ll believe that.

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    • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      You’re going to be waiting a long time to get reliable numbers out of the CCP.

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      • tsonfeir@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I mean the other car companies who overcharge.

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    • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      They won’t because part of it is slave labor.

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      • bamboo@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        [citation needed]

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      • tsonfeir@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        That’s all car companies.

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  • exanime@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    People have been mad for decades about what Walmart did to retail in the US.

    And the government stepped in and addressed the situation, right? Right?

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    • Liz@midwest.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      They fucking should have. I’m not gonna give China a pass just because Walmart got one.

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  • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    it’spotentially even a hostile act.

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• Buelldozer@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I want a $10000 car that would normally be inflated to $30000 in the US.

  You can’t make that same car in the United States for anything like the same price. Even ignoring the Chinese Governments heavy subsidies there’s still a massive cost gap due to worker compensation, cost of compliance with safety regulations, cost of compliance with environmental regulations, and a whole host of other things.

  The cost of manufacturing in the United States is radically higher than it is in China and that simply isn’t fixable unless you’re going to unwind Union pay deals, remove environmental laws, and reduce safety restrictions.

  You cannot have both, so which are you choosing? Are you going to go with your wallet like a self absorbed capitalist or are you going to support union workers, stronger environmental laws, and more worker safety?

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  • karpintero@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This is what I try to tell people who just want the cheapest things possible. We’re voting with our dollars what kind of world we want.

    Also, shipping things across the sea burns some of the worst fuel for the environment so I’d rather buy things made here and support the local economy whenever possible.

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    • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Love seeing people spread awareness of bunker fuel. It’s absolutely terrible and would be illegal if humans were rational and wanted to survive as a species

      A single large ship burning that shit pollutes as much as many millions of cars.

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    • exanime@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      This is what I try to tell people who just want the cheapest things possible. We’re voting with our dollars what kind of world we want.

      Ok, please tell me where can I buy <insert anything here> that’s wasn’t totally or partially made in China??

      I’m an avid learner and DIY, I try to only buy raw materials and tools to make everything I can myself … I have yet to see standard basic tools that were not made in China…

      I understand your point, but to expect that “voting with your wallet” will cause change, is like hoping we can turn around a cruise ship by blowing at it

      Just look at the enshitification of everything… Did people vote that in with their wallets? Or all services decided that on greed and left us no choice but to hold our noses or give up the last few vestiges of entertainment that we could still afford?

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  • Veraxus@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    so which are you choosing?

    I think most people will choose what they can actually afford. The fact that things cost so much and people aren’t being paid anywhere near enough to compensate for the skyrocketing price of consumer goods, including vehicles.

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    • jaemo@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Maybe the problem is our lifestyles. I’m unaware of any long term studies suggesting that in a situation in which the population increases and the resources and land are fixed, that it gets cheaper for anyone wanting anything.

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      • slumberlust@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Have you read Ishmael?

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  • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Thatsthething.

    Everyone talks about how shitty the environment is and that we’re going to get burned alive in our lifetime…but at the same time, fuck the environment if it means cheap goods.

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Mexico is just across the boarder, and US car makers already make their stuff there to save cash. Mexico has a pretty low unemployment rate right now, so pushing even more labor demand their way would help improve a lot of peoples’ lives by lifting salaries.

    But a lot of the cost is in battery manufacturing, not assembly. We need to experiment with sodium-ion batteries to bring those costs down for economy-class cars, just like China is. Maybe $10k is too little, but $15-20k should be feasible for a very basic car.

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    • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The Bolts were 25,000 before GM discontinued them.

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      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Yup, and I’m looking at them. But it’s important to point out that they’re not really discontinued, Chevy said they’re planning to upgrade the battery packs and relaunch, but they’re currently focusing on other car offerings. So I’m guessing it’ll relaunch in a year or two.

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  • bamboo@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    While I can’t say any of this is wrong, you’re missing likely the single biggest component inflating the cost of US manufacturing: profit margins. Every step of the supply chain has a profit margin attached. Sometimes just a few percent, but often double digits. These compound, so a 5% margin on a simple component will see an additional 15% when sold as part of an assembly, which is then marked up another 20% when sold as part of the finished good. There’s also financialization which burdens US companies. Companies generally need to take loans to fund their operations, and end up having to pay heavy interest fees and rent which also drives up cost. Workers and environmental protections are more expensive, but in practice they are relatively minor compared to a lot of other inefficiencies US industry struggles with.

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    • Buelldozer@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Every step of the supply chain has a profit margin attached. Sometimes just a few percent, but often double digits.

      That’s true in China as well. The only difference is in the price of what is being marked up.

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      • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Well, there’s also less corruption and more free competition to lower pricesin the US.

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  • exanime@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Sure we will take the sacrifice… I’m sure this time capitalist will get the message and start behaving reasonably

    It’s like that time thousands of us reduced or eliminated meat intake and suddenly the Kardashians realized taking private jet flight to avoid a few minutes of traffic was bad and stopped doing it

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  • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You do understand they have to comply with our safety and environmental standards to sell here right?

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• Novi@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I was born into a car centric society. So much so they design the places we live around them. Including dense residential far away from employment that requires transportation. Chop all attempts at decent public transit and now you have created a market of completely artificial demand. Which the law says cars must become more expensive. I have to have a car because of the awful design choices made by unqualified politicians past. Fuck the auto industry. They could have been out saviors by being the example of what union companies do but instead chose violence.

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• PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Ah yes, great way to fuck over our capitalists, by supporting their worse capitalists instead

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  • Lavitz@lemmings.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I mean if we’re being capitalists, that’s how the free market works, right?

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    • Buttons@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      US auto makers were like “we love the free market”, then people bought cheaper cars from China and they said “wait, not that free!”

      They want to be the one to buy the $10,000 car from China, and then sell it to us for $50,000.

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    • Zehzin@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Certified “you criticize capitalism yet you live in it” moment

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      • Lavitz@lemmings.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        No ethical way to spend in a capitalist society. It kind of is what it is, cause I gotta eat. Also certified “you criticize capitalism yet you live in it moment” to you sir.

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  • TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    “our capitalists”

    what does that even mean ?

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    • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      My guess that the prior comment either reflects an assumption that non western capitalists are somehow better than western capitalists or that China’s capitalists aren’t a capitalist class.

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  • tsonfeir@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Maybe I want “our capitalists” to change.

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• Not_mikey@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s not the capitalist auto companies who are going to get hurt though. The price advantage of the Chinese companies comes from low labor costs and government subsidies, so the auto companies will just move there production to whatever country offers the most subsidies and least labor costs because in our current globalized world capital can move freely.

  The real losers will be the unionized auto workers who’ll be abandoned while capitalists maintain or even increase there profits in the third world. These sorts of race to the bottom always harm workers, whether it be with clothes and shein , or EVs.

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• AtariDump@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  All Carsalesmen Are Bastards.

  Defund the dealerships.

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