Comment on Easy-to-use solar panels are coming, but utilities are trying to delay them

• CMahaff@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Hmmm, I wonder how this would affect things in the future where this is widely used.

  I.E. if you had both widespread solar usage and some kind of large blackout, would it be hard to get all your solar back online because it’s all in the “waiting for the grid” state? And the grid can’t come back at capacity because all the solar it’s expecting is out?

  I assume people smarter than me have this figured out, but just a random thought if anyone knows more.

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• artyom@piefed.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  How do you know? In a typical solar system, you have to have a permit, which requires an inspector to come out and ensure everything is configured correctly and safely. These don’t require any permits, which is great for making them more affordable and accessible, but there’s also no one coming around to make sure that anyone is doing it safely.

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  • eleitl@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I know it because it’s in the spec necessary for licensing. It shuts off in under 20 ms so you can’t even get shocked by the prongs of the plug if pulled out.

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    • artyom@piefed.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      What license? Who is coming to verify your license?

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      • eleitl@lemmy.zip ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        It is a commercial product, connected to the grid via a standard schuko plug, sold in Germany. It has to be compliant with the local law to be sold legally.

        It all shouldn’t be so difficult to understand.

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      • ywuduyu@piefed.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        You are only allowed to dell inverters improved by VDE

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      • captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        In the United States that would be UL Certification.

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  • shininghero@pawb.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Easy check, grab a voltmeter and do it yourself.
    Pull the plug, set voltmeter to AC, and read the voltage across the prongs. If you get anything over the usual float voltage you get from just holding the probes ungrounded, then you have a problem.

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    • artyom@piefed.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      By “you” I did not mean your personal solar system. I mean how does the utility know that other users that have systems connected are doing so safely?

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      • ThePantser@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        The PRODUCT is designed to stop feeding OUT the plug if it doesn’t detect VOLTAGE from the socket. AC is alternating current so it pulses on and off so the solar system is doing the same. It’s turning on and off quickly and seeing if it gets power back and if it detects no power incoming it shuts off the power from the solar. It’s quite simple and ingenious.

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  • acosmichippo@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    you can unilaterally connect your solar panels to the grid. you have to work with the utility to turn them up, and they require permits and passed inspections.

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    • artyom@piefed.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      According to my research, there is no such permit required in Utah. And presumably new legislation is looking to have this exception as well.

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      • acosmichippo@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        not true, you still need to apply to the utility to export to the grid.

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• 4am@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  What happens when someone makes an unsafe backfeed into a downed grid and then other nearby inverters detect the current and bring themselves back online? Is there a way to detect if the load is being delivered from the utility vs from incorrectly configured solar or generator installations?

  Some others are arguing back and forth about this elsewhere in the thread and I see the reasoning: unpermitted systems could accidentally energize isolated portions of the grid during downtime, which might trick properly installed systems to also come back online, and you have a runaway effect where there is enough current present to allow addition safety systems to be fooled.

  There isn’t any data transmission over the wires; there either is current, or there isn’t. Arguing over permitting is moot - either safety systems can handle this scenario already, or they can’t.

  All paperwork does is slow the relief of dependence on the utility, which hurts their profits.

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  • atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    The same thing that currently happens when somebody does that with a gas generator? Linepersons get zapped… people get sued… etc…

    There isn’t any data transmission over the wires…

    That’s very wrong. Not only can you extend Ethernet in your own home using your power outlets, the power companies have been reading meters this way for decades.

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    • artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Linepersons get zapped… people get sued… etc…

      Kinda seems like something you might want to avoid…

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      • atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Obviously. I was just pointing out that it isn’t an issue unique to solar.

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