Comment on I Got This Right, Right?

jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

• jj4211@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I will point out one thing that should be obvious, the shooter was only 22. So it’s possible he doesn’t have a very baked and stable political ideology. I knew a hard core outwardly homophobic conservative at 17 who came out as gay and did theater by 20. I knew a fairly liberal person when she was about 18 that over the years got to a place where she publicly praised Trump and called COVID a hoax and the vaccine a conspiracy. No idea how that happened, even as I saw it first hand.

  Given the situation, it is at least clear he was unhinged if he would get to this point, either way. I would have hoped this would be a lesson for people that people get dangerously moved by angry rhetoric, but a lot of folks are ramping up rhetoric instead.

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  • Highlandcow@feddit.uk ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    A very fair point indeed

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• neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  We don’t have confirmation on all of his motives yet; however what we do know about the shooter, his upbringing, lifestyle, etc. is that the poster responding to OP in the image above is largely correct.

  There are indeed conflicting accounts that his roommate was trans, or his partner was, or similar. None of that’s been verified yet, and even if so, it doesn’t explain the shooter’s motivations.

  What we do know about the shooter is that he largely fits the model of a deeply conservative republican, and that fits with how he was raised, his family, and as his grandmother puts it: “Their family was all MAGA”.

  Going off that, and a lot of other circumstantial details/evidence, it’s clear that he was at one point a deeply MAGA character.

  Beyond that or what his current motivations are? We can only extrapolate. Those extrapolations largely lead in the direction that he shot Kirk because Kirk didn’t back some of the same extremist beliefs he held. Those beliefs are similar to what Nick Fuentes believes in, which is also why he’s currently being labeled a Gyroper.

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  • TheOriginalGregToo@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I feel like we have a pretty definitive understanding of his motivations. This is directly from Tyler when discussing why he did it, “I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out.” Where is the ambiguity in this?

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  • Jumbie@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    According to The Onion, he once had a trans Uber driver so that obviously makes him a leftist.

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    • GhostedIC@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      You can bake cookies twice a week for years and nobody calls you a baker.

      But you have sex with ONE HORSE…

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      • Jumbie@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Hello, Uncle Jack.

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  • NateNate60@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    According to some right-wing spaces (r/conservative on Reddit), there is apparently evidence to suggest that the shooter was an outlier within their otherwise hard-right family.

    Is there any evidence to the contrary?

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    • neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Nobody has direct evidence of the shooter’s motivations or political affiliation today. Nobody.

      That could change, but today this is true.

      Any evidence we have is circumstantial. Most of that circumstantial evidence points in the direction of an extreme right winger.

      I’m sure there’s some circumstantial evidence pointing in the opposite direction, but it pales in comparison to the circumstantial evidence pointing in the far right direction.

      Much of the circumstantial evidence pointing away from the far right came from a mis-attribution from the FBI to a trans rights marker that was debunked as categorically untrue. Or statements from the Utah Gov which are (AFAIK) not backed up by any actual evidence other than how he “wishes” it was. Or from Trump who is known for lying and making things up.

      I’d be curious what evidence they have that hasn’t been announced/released yet that makes them think that.

      I suspect they want it to be true that he was left leaning and they may be assigning too great a weight on the debunked FBI claims, the Utah Gov claims, and Trump’s claims; despite most of the circumstantial evidence that’s been released so far pointing in the direction of him being far right.

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      • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Nobody has direct evidence of the shooter’s motivations or political affiliation today. Nobody.

        From the texts between him and his roomate that have been publicly released. Source: theguardian.com/…/charlie-kirk-shooting-prosecuto…

        “Roommate: ‘Why?’ Robinson: ‘Why did I do it?’ Roommate: ‘Yeah.“’ Robinson: ‘I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out.”

        So, we have his direct statement to his transwoman roommate as to his motive, either you can take that at face value or claim it’s some carefully crafted lie intentionally meant to deceive us as to his real motives. You do you.

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      • GhostedIC@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Hi, I’m here to remind you that this is utterly delusional and even reddit mods are about to get real quiet how this “he was right wing” fabrication.

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  • jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Fair enough, but I think we shouldn’t be basing our inferences about the shooter from his family’s political leanings. My feeling is that somebody who does something so drastic is likely enough to be an outlier from their family that we can’t really know one way or the other.

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    • Soup@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      A big reason why that’s important, as long as it’s done with care, is because conservatives rely on the rhetoric that purely white, conservative communities would be without crime. This kid grew up in a prime setting to show how amazing their way of life is without any “evil leftist” influences and yet here we are. The US has been given every opportunity to show how great theocratic conservative capitalism is and yet it keeps failing because the reality is that it fucking sucks rocks.

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      • jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        if he’s a leftist, then of course he had “evil leftist” influences. The internet exists.

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• napkin2020@sh.itjust.works ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Earlier in the briefing, Gray said investigators had spoken to Robinson’s mother, who said her son had, over the last year “become more political and had started to lean more to the left, becoming more pro-gay and trans rights-oriented”.

  He disclosed that the exchange with the roommate then began to explore a motive.

  “Roommate: ‘Why?’ Robinson: ‘Why did I do it?’ Roommate: ‘Yeah."’ Robinson: ‘I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything about them finding it,’” Gray said.

  I think the motivation is pretty clear at this point. Not sure how this post got 1k+ likes and no one seem to give credible source.

  Source: theguardian.com/…/charlie-kirk-shooting-prosecuto…

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• normalexit@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I wouldn’t trust anyone describing his political leanings or motives until court. It’s being twisted around and rumors are spreading like wildfire in a vacuum of actual leadership.

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  • jj4211@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I’d even say all indications are that his leanings don’t matter in the specifics of this event.

    It’s probably more informative that folks can credibly have theories for either leaning to lead to this event. Lots of reasons that could believably drive any political leaning over the edge if they are close.

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  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    His trail’s probably a long way away, isn’t it?

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    • normalexit@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      That’s a good question. I honestly don’t know, they’ll probably try to hang him on primetime tv as soon as legally possible.

      I just keep hearing about discord and 4chan and how he’s got a trans roommate/girlfriend/landlord. If anyone has any reputable sources I’m interested. I just feel like cable news, the Trump admin, and the Internet are all reporting 24/7 on something they need to investigate.

      At least people face consequences for lying under oath. Well in theory.

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• brucethemoose@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  My sentiment is the same. To be blunt, Lemmy is a terrible place to ask.

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• chrischryse@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The politicians just want to continue spreading fear no matter the side imo

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  • RonniePickering@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    That is utter bullshit. The right is wanting to go door to door and kill democrats and keep saying this is war. The left is saying we dont condone this kind of abhorrent behavior. They are NOT the same at all.

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  • jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    The oligarchs want that, and the oligarchs have many politicians in their pocket I presume. However, it’s not like non-corrupt non-bought politicians have any reason to be afraid of a unified nation – they’re in politics to effect change in the first place.

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    • chrischryse@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Ik just feels like they don’t care. Overall I just hate all this in fighting makes it hard to get stuff done when you point fingers and shit

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      • jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        yeah, I agree. But like, pointing fingers at “politicians” broadly speaking is still just pointing fingers.

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• multifariace@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I heard there is video of him using a megaphone to debate Charlie at some point. I do not know where to verify this. I will be looking into it later.

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  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Is it this one? www.youtube.com/watch?v=rncUo1Pnqio

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