Comment on Iron

yesman@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• kerrigan778@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I mean, this is a good idea for a big reason other than genes though, people who are currently addicted to meth shouldn’t be having kids, not from a gene perspective but as an unfit parent and as an unsafe pregnancy standpoint.

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  • cows_are_underrated@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    While I agree with you, the problem is, that it opens the door for a lot of other forms of eugenics. Once we decided that Meth users shouldn’t have kids we can quickly expand the definition of who is “allowed to have kids”. People who take LSD? Those psychopaths. Stoners? Homeless people? Black people?

    It gives a certain group of people power over one of the most intimate secsectors of someone’s private life. No one can guarantee, that at some point we are not the ones being included in the definition of “unfit for parenting” simply because we have the wrong political views or something like that.

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• jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  This is only because the word “eugenics” has been made a bad word because people assume that anything called “eugenics” must be similar to the horrible things the Nazis did. It’s the non-central fallacy – such things are eugenics only in the same way that Martin Luther king is technically a criminal (he did violate the law by protesting) or abortion is murder (a “human being” does “die”).

  Polygenic scoring on embryos is legal and eminently doable if you’re wealthy enough to afford it; it’s a very effective way to eliminate the risk of debilitating genetic diseases like Down’s Syndrome, and can greatly reduce the risk of things like Alzheimer’s or some types of cancer. It also can improve the IQ of your child by up to ~8 points or so, which correlates (plausibly causally) with higher education and income in life. So basically, it’s an effective way to help make your child more privileged. Right now it’s only affordable by the very wealthy though, but perhaps in ten years it will be very cheap.

  Notice though that it’s unrelated to race pseudoscience and murder, even though race pseudoscientists like to talk about genetics and IQ.

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  • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    jsomae, do you want Gattaca ? Because that’s how you get Gattaca !

    And next for sale we have this worker with very small hands, through multiple generation of human breeding we have developped this fine pure bred specimen perfectly adapted to reaching into tight spaces and machinery, its mind is docile and obedient and doesn’t get spooked easily by the loud sound of working high speed hydraulic presses. Very agile with tools and can read schematics but no artistic ability nor speech as a side effect of the genetic modification, on the plus side, they cannot form unions.

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    • explodicle@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Imagine if we got genetic engineering back when everybody inherited their parent’s job. People named Smith would look like dwarves.

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      • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Yes, most humans would be genetically designed living tools to serve the few real, pure bred, unmodified humans
        For them liberation would only mean death, not that they could imagine life in different way
        for copyright reasons, they would also all be sterile of course

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    • dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      How bad could it be? Ethan Hawke succeeds in the movie even though he’s got no real genetic qualifications.

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      • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Ask Jude Law inside the incinerator how things are going for him
        And astronaut boy is not going to be normal
        after the surveillance state twisted him like a pretzel so he could avoid detection

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    • jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Gattaca is a great warning about what could happen if we have gene-elitism. If you’ve forgotten, the premise of Gattaca is that the main character isn’t genetically enhanced, but he’s still sufficiently capable; it’s only stigma, not an actual lack of ability, which is a threat to his career. We already live in a world where some people are privileged and some people are not, and despite this, there’s been a Black POTUS, women astronauts, and so on. That a lack of privilege is a barrier that can be overcome is basically central to liberal ideology; I don’t see it disappearing in the west any time soon.

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      • Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I think GATTACA is more a warning that gene editing will become a luxury of the wealthy, and inherently will be elitist, with no realistic way to separate the two. It will just become the new rich and connected qualifier, doesn’t matter the actual capacities of the people, the one with the money, and connections, will be much more likely to get the thing.

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  • outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    There are other hazards and i don’t trust this society to deal with any of them in healthy ways.

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    • jsomae@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I don’t trust society to fairly give out any kind of health-related benefit. The USA just ended PEPFAR this year, condemning millions in africa to die of easily-preventable diseases. But you don’t see me protesting the very notion of medical science.

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      • outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Im seconding the ‘this is how you get gattaca’ comment.

        If i could crispr myself in my garage, there’s some shit I’d absolutely do right now. Like wonder when i got a garage.

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• Blackmist@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I mean we do take kids off crackheads. Repeatedly in some cases.

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• atomicorange@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Looks like it’s time to reinvent the torture nexus from famed science fiction novel “Don’t Invent The Torture Nexus”. Maybe it will go well this time!

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• kameecoding@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Not eugenics though, if anything it’s a rather leftist stance that accepts that you can’t control what people put in their body, but tries to mitigates harm for those who have no choice.

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  • abbotsbury@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Controlling which people are allowed to reproduce is eugenics.

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    • yermaw@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Absolutely, and like most abhorrent evil the first step is such a positive idea you cant possibly object.

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    • kameecoding@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Birth control pills are eugenics?

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      • carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        no, because people choose to take them

        if they’re forced, then yes, it’s eugenics

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      • abbotsbury@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Prescribed with any sort of trickery, skullduggery, or hooliganism? Yes.

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• Fizz@lemmy.nz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  We already practice eugenics. Its a term that covers a lot of things. There’s a line between good eugenics and bad eugenics. I’d say secretly bputting birth control in drugs to control population is bad eugenics.

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  • explodicle@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This isn’t an ethnic group or permanent, though. I think the bigger ethical issue is that birth control can have dangerous side effects.

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• DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I get why you think that, but it does not say permanent.

  If the birth control lasted 1-6 month to ensure active addicts would not have children, I would be kind of in favor of it. There is nothing good about a child being raised by addicts or taken by CPS and going through orphanages/foster care.

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