Then move
Comment on Please consider supporting Lemmy development
rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 11 months ago
People are avoiding supporting lemmy monetarily due to the actions of the developers. We do not reward bad behaviors here. If lemmy development ends most of us will just move to kbin or piefed. This is a non-issue.
4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online 10 months ago
doctortran@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Freeloading where? They can be donating to the instance they are on.
person1@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Hmm glad I found this post and the comments. I recently came here from Reddit and joined some random communities just to have something in my feed. I was a bit shocked at hammer and sickle posted non-ironically in the meme group. Noting that communists weren’t better than Nazis got me called an ungrateful shit for existing (which I apparently owe to Stalin) and banned. Moved to the second-biggest meme community the search found, where I’m not banned yet but being educated by Westerners that life in communist coutries was cheerful and Holodomor was an oopsie.
I’m glad to hear that this is not all that Lemmy stands for, but a bit disappointed learning that top developers are a part of the problem. I’m conflicted about donating to say the least, and it does not bode well for lemmy adoption in general. I’ll stick around to see if other servers gain momentum, but I’ll need to keep an eye open for other reddit alternatives I guess
Alaskaball@hexbear.net 10 months ago
Noting that communists weren’t better than Nazis got me called an ungrateful shit for existing (which I apparently owe to Stalin) and banned.
According to the mod logs the only thing you copped a ban for is being uncivil you ungrateful little shit
M0oP0o@mander.xyz 10 months ago
reason: Rule 1
From the modlog that seems to be a ban without explanation, as is tradition. Since there is no explanation on these “rule 1” bans (temporary or not) I tend to take them in the worst possible light. And since the first two (and only other mod actions) where to remove “I’m going to take a wild guess that posters and downvoters in this thread don’t live in actual communist countries. Endorsing hammer and sickle is just as bad as endorsing swastikas…” and “Yeah great, because what we need now is soviet propaganda. This needs to die” according to the mod logs their story checks out.
person1@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Thank you for taking the trouble to fact-check!
Alaskaball@hexbear.net 10 months ago
You’re more than entitled to believe anything other than the facts.
dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 10 months ago
Drag is an anarchist and banned from lemmy.ml for being left wing, so drag hopes you will listen with an open mind to this:
Karl Marx said that communism is stateless. That means in communism, the government has no authority to coerce people. Authoritarianism isn’t communism. In fact, Joseph Stalin never claimed that the USSR had achieved communism. He said they’d achieved socialism, and he made empty promises that it would be communist at some point in the future.
You know where communism was actually successfully implemented? America and Australia. Karl Marx and his friends were inspired by the Haudenosaunee people of North America. Marx called it “primitive communism”.
4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online 10 months ago
While the capital-state complex exists, the material reality is that not all states are equal. Internationalism requires us to focus on our own oppressor and trust the rest of the worldwide proletarian to fight theirs in the way they see fit.
As a westerner, I do not have the right to tell Chinese people or any other nation that they live under a dictatorship. I have the duty to fight against the regime I live in. Otherwise, I am only participating in warmongering antagonism that is only benefitting the oligarchy.
dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 10 months ago
Every state burns oil. Therefore every state is oppressing drag. You logic would only work if they weren’t harming everyone. Besides, the Palestinians and the Ukrainians have asked for our help.
nutomic@lemmy.ml 10 months ago
You are not banned from lemmy.ml
dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 10 months ago
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 months ago
Communism and fascism are entirely different, and conflating the two has roots in Double Genocide Theory, a form of Holocaust trivialization and Nazi Apologia. The Nazis industrialized murder and attempted to colonize the world, the Soviets uplifted the Proletariat and supported national liberation movements such as in Cuba, China, Algeria, and Palestine. I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds.
dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 10 months ago
Nobody wants to argue with Cowbee
hakase@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Person1, since you’re new here, this is Cowbee, our resident tankie apologist/propagandist.
The most reasonable-sounding genocide denier and authoritarian regime supporter this side of the gulags. I highly recommend their alt’s comments on Hexbear if you’re interested in their more “mask off” persona.
4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online 10 months ago
Talking third person about someone is very rude.
AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 11 months ago
Read this person’s profile and you will find that they are an absolute unhinged psycho who trolls threads like these AND HAS BEEN AT IT FOR LITERAL YEARS hexbear.net/comment/4466837
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 months ago
Quite an introduction, and quite a lot of slander. I’m a Communist, Marxist, Marxist-Leninist, etc, regardless of how you want to call me. I’m certainly not a genocide denier, and I’d say all governments are “authoritarian,” what matters is which class is exerting its authority. My goal is in fact to dispel myths surrounding Marxism, Marxism-Leninism, Communism, etc.
If they check my Hexbear account, they’ll see more conversation surrounding gaming and casual conversation, haha.
Carl@hexbear.net 11 months ago
Noting that communists weren’t better than Nazis got me called an ungrateful shit for existing
Calling communists as bad as a Nazis is a form of genocide denial. You deserved your ban and you should learn more about history before you comment on it.
illi@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Afaik Stalin is resoposible for more deaths than Hitler. Hitler had concentration camps, Stalin had gulags. Neither was much better than the other.
4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online 10 months ago
Congo had giant work camps.
Pretty much every ideology have commited awful shit. Nazism is the only ideology where genocide is the end goal of the state.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 months ago
The Nazis industrialized mass murder, and deliberately killed millions in the Holocaust. The Soviet prison system was in no way comparable to the Nazi concentration camps designed to murder and kill, this is Holocaust trivialization. Communism and fascism are entirely different, and conflating the two has roots in Double Genocide Theory, a form of Holocaust trivialization and Nazi Apologia. The Nazis industrialized murder and attempted to colonize the world, the Soviets uplifted the Proletariat and supported national liberation movements such as in Cuba, China, Algeria, and Palestine. I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds.
Kieselguhr@hexbear.net 11 months ago
Afaik
Afaik: written abbreviation for as far as I know: used when you believe that something is true, but you are not completely certain. Internet, email and texting conventions. a/s/l.
See the thing is, you don’t know shit
Alaskaball@hexbear.net 11 months ago
a bunch of off-topic yakking related to your comment but detracts from the overall post.
1, how the West treats the word gulag - as seen by your application equivocating them to nazi death camps - is not reflective of reality of it being applied as a catch-all term for prisons. 2, the highest deaths that occured in the Soviet penal system occured during ww2 with source of deaths primarily stemming from nazi POWs 3, the commonly cited numbers of deaths that occured in the Soviet penal system comes from an openly flawed and biased methodology chosen exclusively to fabricate a false reality that equivocates nazi fascism with Soviet communism, which was further boosted by the CIA during the cold war to smear their ideological opposition’s image. The real numbers have been revealed with the opening of the Soviet archives after the fall of the Soviet Union, allowing actual historians to access primary sources to clear up the cold war era historical revisionism that obscured our understanding of the truth for the past 80 years. 4, this is not to say the system ran in that era is flawless. It in fact had blemishes and flaws that stemmed from the monstrously brutal tsarist regimn that the Soviets overthrew. That said even at its worst during the second world War its own brutality is dwarfed by the American penal system from back then to this very moment. Here’s an article that discusses “double genocide theory”, which dissects the fact that equivocating the worst excesses that occured under the Soviet Union as being anything remotely near the monstrous crimes against humanity perpetrated by the German Nazi regimn is to commit and engage in Holocaust denialism jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory Here’s an excerpt from a book that lightly delves into the numbers, but there’s plenty of other information floating around as well. hexbear.net/post/136521?scrollToComments=false
AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 11 months ago
Gulag is the russian word for prison. It’s just really easy to make foreign words scary to racists.
Afaik Stalin is resoposible for more deaths than Hitler.
The literal uniform wearing german nazis that convinced you of this counted unborn children due to declining birthrates.
hakase@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Most of Lemmy is fine - just avoid the tankie triad of lemmygrad, lemmy.ml, and hexbear and you should be good to go.
person1@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I can certainly see that Hexbear and the other two are very vocal and toxic here. Engaging in some discussion or getting my views challenged is fine, I’d rather not close myself in a bubble, but it’s sad that they would be so quick to insult and ban you. It does worry that they have some of the biggest communities. I wish I could say “oh well the protocol is neutral” but I think that with most OSS projects it matters tremendously who is at the helm; also, another poster outlined quite well that these instances seem to be the showcase for the system.
peregrin5@lemm.ee 10 months ago
They are only big by number because they are some of the oldest instances. The number of actually active users is less than .world or .ee.
They only seem more active because they are terminally online and have communities that are specifically designed to brigade threads when they don’t like what’s posted.
mathemachristian@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Its supposed to be tankie TROIKA 😤
Ofiuco@lemmy.cafe 11 months ago
[deleted]OpenStars@piefed.social 10 months ago
I moved to PieFed before it was fully ready, and I've been able to personally defederate from lemmy.ml by blocking all users since I did. No admin approval required. That feature alone was worth it to me to put up with the pain of the platform not being ready yet.
Since then, the platform has greatly improved, and now has many MANY features that Lemmy (and a few that even Reddit) lacks. For example the most recent additions are polls and post flairs. Which tbf Lemmy has plans to add, but features languish in its roadmap for multiple years at a time so I would not expect them anytime "soon". Tbf Rust is a difficult language to work with, but that's just all the more reason to love PieFed, written in Python that many more people can contribute to. Which is what has been allowing it to add new features literally weekly as of late.
PieFed is extremely nice - come check it out! Make an account, and by the time you get through the setup wizard you will already have fallen in love with it.:-)
4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online 10 months ago
Oh nooo people I disagree with!! Terrible
nutomic@lemmy.ml 11 months ago
The roadmap contains a new feature for extended instance block, which also blocks all posts and comments from that instance’s users. If some feature is not implemented in Lemmy thats not out of malice, but because we really dont have time to work in everything that people ask for.
AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 11 months ago
And if you want instances where holocaust deniers turn their nose up and avoid, consider joining lemmygrad, lemmy.ml and hexbear!
Sibshops@lemm.ee 11 months ago
You can support lemm.ee, then, instead?
rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I might as well since I probably gave Sunaurus a big headache with this thread.
lily33@lemm.ee 11 months ago
This is bs, because you - and perhaps almost everyone else here - are supporting monetarily much worse people than the Lemmy developers.
1984@lemmy.today 11 months ago
Those places suck and doesnt even have quality apps…
rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Binette@lemmy.ml 11 months ago
I had them blocked for misogyny, no wonder lol
1984@lemmy.today 11 months ago
Yeah? I dont agree its transphobic to want women to still be competetive in the sports they are competing in. And thats my opinion.
4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online 10 months ago
That’s idiotic. We have weight classes to take care of body differences already. Are you also advocating for sport to be racially segregated?
AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The Olympics have allowed trans women to compete against cis women since the 90s, and yet there’s never been a trans medalist. If there was a genuine advantage to being trans in sport, at least one country in the past three decades would have loaded their team with trans women and cleaned house. However, taking enough hormones to make a masculine body into a feminine one after it’s already grown means you’ve got way less testosterone than a cis woman, so that counters out any initial advantage. Claiming otherwise is misinformation. Spreading misinformation to the detriment of trans people is transphobic.
Neoinvin@lemm.ee 11 months ago
showing an unbelievable lack of understanding and your whole ass on the internet huh? you’re entitled to your opinion, like everyone else. but it sure is a stupid one.
peregrin5@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Just like with Elon Musk, if someone wants people to support them monetarily, they shouldn’t work hard to make themselves objectionable to wide swaths of the population they are trying to extract money from.
Irelephant@lemm.ee 11 months ago
You can argue that, despite their opinions, the lemmy devs provide something of worth.
hitmyspot@aussie.zone 10 months ago
So does nestlé, I still boycott them as our values don’t align.
peregrin5@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Elon Musk made electric cars popular. Nazi scientists developed rocket technology. That’s all fine and good, but I’m still not going to give them my money.
4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online 10 months ago
He didnt made shit.
You’re a freeloader
person1@lemm.ee 11 months ago
This is not wrong
Alaskaball@hexbear.net 11 months ago
Get off your high wooden horse and stomp your way back to reddit
rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 11 months ago
If not supporting genocide and authoritarianism is a high horse to you, you might want to invest in a step ladder.
Kieselguhr@hexbear.net 11 months ago
If not supporting genocide and authoritarianism
They support Israel?
Allah@lemm.ee 11 months ago
chill there are arabs settlers in syria and iraq as well and pashtun settlers in afghanistan
Alaskaball@hexbear.net 11 months ago
You wouldn’t know what a genocidal and authoritarian regime looked like even if you lived in it you reddit-brained hack
Jimbabwe@lemmy.world 11 months ago
What actions of the developers are you talking about? I’m not trying to start a fight, I’m honestly out of the loop or whatever.
GoodEye8@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I imagine the biggest point are the censorship, disinformation and tankie allegations. These are all documented in this post. Another point worth bringing up is that they are the admins of lemmy.ml, where most of the allegations happen. Lemmy.ml also has something of a tankie problem and one of the devs has said that the donations will also cover the cost of running the instance. So by donating to the devs you’re also donating to an instance that possibly has no problem with censorship, disinformation and harboring tankies.
I would be willing to turn a blind eye if I could trust the devs to step away from lemmy.ml and focus solely on the development of Lemmy. But I don’t trust the devs enough to actually do that so I personally won’t be supporting Lemmy development until someone else becomes the maintainer of Lemmy.
nutomic@lemmy.ml 11 months ago
lemmy.ml is part of Lemmy development as it is used to test new versions before release, take performance measurements and have first-hand experience with the mod tools. If I stepped away from lemmy.ml it would make Lemmy worse and cause more problems for other instance admins. In any case the costs for lemmy.ml hosting are already covered at a much lower donation level, anything you contribute goes directly to developer salaries.
GoodEye8@lemm.ee 10 months ago
I’ve given it some more thought. There’s no guarantee that money going to the developers won’t be used to for the instance they are financing. If I give you money and the lemmy.ml funds are empty, are you going to let lemmy.ml die? Considering you said it is used to test new versions of lemmy and measure performance and test how effective the mod tools are I don’t think you would let lemmy.ml die. You’d finance it yourself, most likely from the money that is donated for the development of lemmy. So separating lemmy development and lemmy.ml instance costs wouldn’t really change the situation.
But I also no longer think it’s inherently necessary to step away from lemmy.ml. I get the value a real instance would give to development, so what I think needs to happen is a shift in what lemmy.ml is supposed to be. If the purpose of lemmy.ml is to support the development of lemmy then the primary goal of the instance should be that. Clearly the biggest issue people have is politics and how lemmy.ml is used as a vessel to push a certain kind of political agenda, which means if the primary goal is to support development then the instance right now contradicts its primary goal. It’s dissuading people from donating to the development and it’s making the main developers (you in this case) focus on the drama (for the lack of a better word) instead of spending time developing. I think the solution is pretty simple, lemmy.ml should take a hard anti-politics stance. Do a purge and kick all politics off the instance, including instance users who discuss politics on other instances. Have it be memes, technology, privacy and FOSS and gaming and everything else that doesn’t necessarily lead to politics. Users who want to take part in political discourse can find instances that allow political discourse, and that includes you and Dessalines. If you want to be political create an alt account on a different instance. Communities that want to be political can find other instances to be in political. You don’t need politics to run lemmy.ml. And for the sake of clarity also add to the instance about section that the instance exists to support lemmy development because currently that is not written anywhere.
If you think that’s unfair to the current users of lemmy.ml I honestly don’t see how you could resolve this situation without stepping away from lemmy.ml.
Ledivin@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They should try just using it for development instead of forcing out tankie propaganda, then.
hakase@lemm.ee 11 months ago
lemmy.ml is part of Lemmy development as it is used to test new versions before release, take performance measurements and have first-hand experience with the mod tools.
Then you really shouldn’t be surprised that people don’t want to donate when part of that support goes toward an instance that openly and aggressively supports authoritarian regimes and genocide denial, and brutally censors any dissenting viewpoints.
If I stepped away from lemmy.ml it would make Lemmy worse and cause more problems for other instance admins.
The other option, of course, would be to run lemmy.ml in a way that doesn’t actively piss off the majority of Lemmy users, but that doesn’t seem to be a path you’re willing to consider.
Honestly, as much as I disagree with your politics I’d probably donate anyway because of how great Lemmy is, if only you developed behind the scenes and weren’t personally responsible for one of the worst places on the platform. As it is, as long as both a) lemmy.ml continues to be run the way it is and b) you continue to have an active part in that instance’s abhorrent behavior, I can’t in good conscience give you any financial support.
conditional_soup@lemm.ee 11 months ago
AND it’s open source software. Nothing is stopping anyone from just forking Lemmy.
mathemachristian@lemm.ee 11 months ago
They’re ^communists^ 😱
peregrin5@lemm.ee 11 months ago
They’re
^communists^transphobic, class reductionists, support Russian invasion of Ukraine, support Uyghur genocide, support N. Korean dictators, worked hard to ensure Republicans won US elections, run an instance where they act like the authoritarian dictators they love and ban everyone who disagrees with them for being “liberals” 😱FTFY
4n41y4no5@crazypeople.online 10 months ago
WorKed HarD to enSurE rePub woN
Let me guess, they actually talked about Gaza? Funny how the libs are now mad at Palestinians for costing them the elections.
A few days ago one of the worldists got banned for saying shit like “Palestinians deserved it”. His history was full of those sarcastic remarks about how trump was so much better for gaza
gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
Tankies, specifically
Authoritarian commies who have very different-from-reality opinions and word definitions
Oh, and transphobia
mathemachristian@lemm.ee 11 months ago
tankie is just the new scary sounding word for communist derived from when the soviet union helped defeat a CIA backed color-revolution in Hungary
towelie@lemm.ee 11 months ago
It’s so funny to me when I express an even remotely moderate opinion and get called a right-winger. Lol, is lemmy really where right-wingers would go for online discourse?
infeeeee@lemm.ee 11 months ago
See some stories here: !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
OpenStars@piefed.social 10 months ago
Mbin, not Kbin. Kbin is dead.
There actually is one instance left, a tiny little hold-over in Poland, last I checked, but everyone else that was using Kbin has since switched to Mbin.
Except me personally, who switched to PieFed (which is fantastic btw!:-).