Ok. Let’s break this down: Your definition and interpretation of free speech is irrelevant. You can interpret anything however you want whenever you want and that is fine. Your arguments may not hold up in court and you cannot force that definition on others.
As broken as our legal system is, it is all we have for now. As such, you need to understand that the only definition of free speech that matters is the one that has been interpreted by a court of law.
Anyone can say anything they want at any time. What people forget is that words may come with consequences.
Schools must have rules for a number of reasons, mainly because they are full of kids. Dress codes for schools apply across all students and must not discriminate. So, if a school has a rule that any words can’t be on shirts, no child can have words on their shirt.
Well hate speech is free speech too. Schools don’t want to foster that behavior and so they can make and enforce policies to create the learning environment that they want.
Also your argument works for bringing guns into schools too. The second amendment is above those school policies too.
Minors have limited rights anyway, but mostly in the voting side of things. An adult is defined as someone who has reached the “age of majority”. After that, they are free to make adult decisions and be fully accountable for their actions.
Schools are basically forced to accept responsibility for kids for a number of hours per day. As such, schools.mist create a safe environment for all students and maintain some kind of order and ensure the rights of other kids aren’t infringed.
Me exercising my rights can never infringe on the rights of others. Many people don’t understand that.
I can see what you’re saying in the sense that nothing should physically be stopping them from saying it, but also nothing should be insulating them from the consequences of what they say, right? To take it to a logical extreme, if a kid says they’re going to shoot up the school the next day, I hope we can agree that requires more from school admins than just “well, it’s his right to say that”.
I personally also think it’s stupid for a school to be involved for a shirt like in the OP (western society is much too puritanical about simple nudity/body parts, imo), but there’s clearly a line somewhere about what speech/expression can be allowed in public. Assuming you can agree with that, where would you want that line to be? I’d personally draw the line before it reaches threats to peoples’ physical/mental health (like the nazis and gore I mentioned).
When a student goes to school, the school becomes in loco parentis and the student doesn’t have protection from school officials. Children, on campus, general do not have protection for free speech, protection from unreasonable searches or seizures, or really any of their rights.
The school, acting as parents, can restrict their speech, search their bags, and confiscate contraband.
EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 3 months ago
free speech is above that shit. The school can’t infringe on that.
db2@lemmy.world 3 months ago
That’s not what free speech means.
EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 3 months ago
Actually that is what free speech means
FREE SPEECH. Curse words and vulgarity is included in that and the constitution is above any authority the school has
vithigar@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
The school is not congress and its rules are not laws. I’m not sure how you think the first amendment applies.
remotelove@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Ok. Let’s break this down: Your definition and interpretation of free speech is irrelevant. You can interpret anything however you want whenever you want and that is fine. Your arguments may not hold up in court and you cannot force that definition on others.
As broken as our legal system is, it is all we have for now. As such, you need to understand that the only definition of free speech that matters is the one that has been interpreted by a court of law.
Here ya go: …wikipedia.org/…/Bethel_School_District_v._Fraser
You can keep babbling on like a SovCit if you want, but you need to understand our legal system and how rights work, especially for minors.
remotelove@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Anyone can say anything they want at any time. What people forget is that words may come with consequences.
Schools must have rules for a number of reasons, mainly because they are full of kids. Dress codes for schools apply across all students and must not discriminate. So, if a school has a rule that any words can’t be on shirts, no child can have words on their shirt.
Here is a breakdown for you: www.freedomforum.org/school-dress-codes/
What you are talking about has been in the courts a number of times.
rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Freedom of Speech is not freedom from the consequences of said speech.
yamanii@lemmy.world 3 months ago
By that definition even the Chinese have freedom of speech.
hime0321@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Well hate speech is free speech too. Schools don’t want to foster that behavior and so they can make and enforce policies to create the learning environment that they want. Also your argument works for bringing guns into schools too. The second amendment is above those school policies too.
remotelove@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Minors have limited rights anyway, but mostly in the voting side of things. An adult is defined as someone who has reached the “age of majority”. After that, they are free to make adult decisions and be fully accountable for their actions.
Schools are basically forced to accept responsibility for kids for a number of hours per day. As such, schools.mist create a safe environment for all students and maintain some kind of order and ensure the rights of other kids aren’t infringed.
Me exercising my rights can never infringe on the rights of others. Many people don’t understand that.
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 3 months ago
A school if free to throw you off their premises for violating their rules too.
They are not forced to give you a platform.
felsiq@lemmy.zip 3 months ago
Out of curiosity, would you say the same applies to putting nazi propaganda or violent gore on a shirt and wearing it in a school?
EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 3 months ago
Even if I hate what someone has to say I think they should be allowed to say it
felsiq@lemmy.zip 3 months ago
I can see what you’re saying in the sense that nothing should physically be stopping them from saying it, but also nothing should be insulating them from the consequences of what they say, right? To take it to a logical extreme, if a kid says they’re going to shoot up the school the next day, I hope we can agree that requires more from school admins than just “well, it’s his right to say that”.
I personally also think it’s stupid for a school to be involved for a shirt like in the OP (western society is much too puritanical about simple nudity/body parts, imo), but there’s clearly a line somewhere about what speech/expression can be allowed in public. Assuming you can agree with that, where would you want that line to be? I’d personally draw the line before it reaches threats to peoples’ physical/mental health (like the nazis and gore I mentioned).
brygphilomena@lemmy.world 3 months ago
When a student goes to school, the school becomes in loco parentis and the student doesn’t have protection from school officials. Children, on campus, general do not have protection for free speech, protection from unreasonable searches or seizures, or really any of their rights.
The school, acting as parents, can restrict their speech, search their bags, and confiscate contraband.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 3 months ago
no right is unlimited
Soulg@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
That’s not what free speech means, a school can absolutely punish you for your speech
JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 3 months ago
They can, and they do all of the time