There are people out there who could utterly smash world records but no-one will never know as they haven't taken up that sport.

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨UncleArthur@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨showerthoughts@lemmy.world⁩

My wife wondered if we are reaching the limit of human ability in athletics; I think we’re only reaching the limit of people who actually take part in those sports.

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gustofwind@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
You’re correct and she is wrong, very wrong

“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.”

evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould

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teft@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Theres a video on youtube i saw once of a rock climbing guy who went to a grip strength competition. These guys were body builders and he shows up just like 65 kilos of wiry muscle. He set a new world record in his weight class.

So yeah i think we have seen what the human body is capable of. Not until everyone has leisure time to do what they want when they want we will see the true upper limit.

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- birne@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The name of that rock climbing guy is Emil Abrahamsson and this is the video you are talking about: youtu.be/LnIkgDrgGoo
  
  He competed again a year later: youtu.be/7uB9BqanPtY
  
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  - teft@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Thanks for linking it. He popped up in the algorithm for me so i couldn’t remember his name.
    
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hank_the_tank66@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I’ve made this argument before relating to motorsports. Due to the barriers of entry (mostly cost, geography and connections), the best potential racing drivers in existence (from a biological perspective) will likely never step foot in a race car.

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- PierceTheBubble@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I would love to see F1 drivers being crushed by sim drivers
  
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  - MrFinnbean@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Honestly, i think most sim drivers could not physically handle driving a real F1 car. And by most i mean like 99% of them.
    
    I mean accelerating a formula can hit you with force of 4g and in corners it can be even more than that.
    
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  - GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Already has happened & made a movie about it.
    
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blimthepixie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I definitely couldn’t run 100m in 8 seconds

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- Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Not with that attitude
  
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  - Dr_Fetus_Jackson@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    …and my axe!
    
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state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
We are very close to the limit of what human bodies can do without cheating. Genetic outliers who can slightly push these limits might exist, but they won’t suddenly jump 10m, rather narrowly crack the 30 year old record of 8.95m, for example. And someone might run a clean 2 hour marathon, but there won’t be anyone running it in 90 minutes. Until we do genetic manipulation or allow doping, the old records will stand or will only increase marginally.

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- gustofwind@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Kinda but also maybe not
  
  Records are continually broken and we do not know the limits when there is so much undiscovered talent and bodies combined w future technique and technology improvements
  
  It’s kinda pointless to talk about but there are many genetic outliers who could dramatically push these limits but we will never know about them or get them in a position to train and try
  
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  - state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    We do know what human bodies are physically capable of. You can literally calculate that. With genetic outliers you can push this slightly, but not by a huge margin. There is a reason why so many records are still standing after 30-40 years. For a marathon, 2 hours is about the limit of human bodies. We reached that in 2023. Maybe someone can eke out a minute or two more, but without genetic manipulation or doping that’s it. The world records for long jump were set in 1988 for women and 1991 for men. The record for high jump was set in 1993. For these sports we have reached what human bodies are capable of. If they are ever broken, it will be by a few centimeters. No human will suddenly jump 10 meters.
    
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T3CHT@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Statistics, anyone?

If we’re a simple ‘normal’ population, your wife’s idea holds; there should be 1 in 1000 athlete in every 1000 people. to get a 1 in 1000 athletic performance with a 50% confidence you need only take 693 samples. So if many thousands have played, you’d expect to have seen peak performance.

But we aren’t distributed like that. Z score analysis of a measurable sport indicates a known top athlete like Usain Bolt is in the order of 5 standard deviations from the norm (depending what we consider the norm data set). That’s more like 1 in a million to one in 10 million to get a Bolt. Which implies millions need to try (and train) to get a Bolt level performance (3 humans in that tier so far, implies between 3 & 30 million have tried). So a Bolt seems to be reaching human limits, reinforcing the wife position position for that sport - we are approaching the human limit.

But wait - that is a popular sport, with a single simple measure. If there were multiple relevant independent measures (say hitting and pitching, or running and throwing), even just 2, the odds become astronomical of finding the best. A dual 1 in 1000 is a 1 in a million. A dual z=5 athlete is 1 in 12 trillion.

So the implication is that for more complex sports where multiple attributes apply, it is much more likely we have not yet seen peak human capabilities. It’s also much harder to measure and recognize when we do - so props to the legendary players, and keep searching for them. We won’t know how good they really were until we sample (play) the sport for hundreds or thousands of years. Finding peak is incredibly lucky/unlikely for our most popular complex sports.

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MidsizedSedan@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
We have a student here in Outback AUS. Amazing at high jump and long jump. Went to the Big Cities twice to represent his state in athletics. And he only got a chance because the new sport teacher came in and pushed for him to go.

Out last sports teacher wouldn’t have made the effort. And who knows how many other great students walked through our doors, and didn’t get a chance to train/go big because of funds/transport/staff engagement etc.

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foggy@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
In taking your wife’s side.

Competition squeezes blood from a stone. There are very few world records that were set without intention.

To your side, you could argue that I am making your point. Perhaps some folks haven’t been thrust up to the plate to take a swing, and this haven’t been tempered in competition. Also, it’s possible that knowing what the records are imposes psychological limitations. For example, Ewa Kawakami, at 9 years old, did three back to back 900s in xgames skateboarding vert recently. Tony hawk asked him how long after his first 720 did he land a 900. He said “the next day.”

I am still going with competition being requisite for peak form. There are exceptions, probably for stuff like Worlds Strongest Man, but something like sprinting, deadlifts, marathon, fastest playthrough of flight of the bumblebee, etc, all take dedication and competition to rise to the top

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cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Yes and no.

I’ve never played football; to think I could outplay, say, Sir David Beckham in his prime or whomever, is just complete and utter nonsense — in my current state.

Now, if I’d been playing football since I was a wee lad and I had built up that skill over the course of my life as I assume he has, maybe there is a chance I could have competed on his level. But we’ll never know because I spent my life playing video games and reading books. I’m fine with the fact that I probably have more hours in Cyberpunk 2077 than he does. (That does not matter to me in the slightest. I’m just saying there are things I can do better than a professional/world renowned football player. And not that I am the best in the world at those things, either.)

Furthermore, I think the people who will excel at those things are the people who are actually doing them, because they had an interest and it drives them. The exception would be people who injured out in school and never had a chance to go pro. So if you change their past and remove that one incident, they could have gone pro and may have gone on to set records. But those of us who never had an interest in playing? No, I do not think we would ever measure up to one who has lived and breathed the sport their whole life.

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GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
By the way, I l8ke that you & your wife have such interesting questions.

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- UncleArthur@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  We both think similarly, and not being serious all the time certainly helps! We’ve been married getting on for 40 years now although I spent so much time working away from home, I often joke we’ve only actually lived together for 8 weeks or so.
  
  If you’ve ever seen ‘Mortimer & Whitehouse: Gone Fishing’ on the BBC, that’s us. Everyone needs a Bob Mortimer in their life and I was lucky enough to find mine back in 1981.
  
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  - GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Cannot find it, anywhere, WOW, DID NOT THINK THAT WAS POSSIBLE.
    
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  - GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I checked it, not watched yet, but those are two-men, not one-husband & one-wife.
    
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  - GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Cool, I am glad it works for you.
    
    My parents are a mess, should be divorced long ago, probably should never have met, I know the effect it have on existence, but not been easy, thanks to their way too young as well birth of me. The facts is my grandparents always verbally fighting, terrible matches & not good people, especially the males of both sides, raised terrible people. So, I am glad to read marriage works for you, but for me, I do not trust the insitution & think it is better without it. Of course I am expecting the perfect woman & I am not perfect, lol.
    
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x00z@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
This realization is part of becoming an adult because it also relates to your own skills and the people around you that do not have them.

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- GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Realizing what in the post that started this 5hread?
  
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fizzle@quokk.au ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Nah. IMO genetics is a pre-requisite, but just one component. If you have the right body, you can be competitive if you do everything else.

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- GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  BINGO!
  
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Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I wanna smash the record for taking the most creampies in 24 hours.

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- Sturgist@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Don’t let your dreams stay dreams 💪
  
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- GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Clown?
  
  Okay, trust me it not good to not achieve your dreams, worse to not go after them, with everything you can give.
  
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GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Only reason this does happen more, though there is definitely a limit, is few people actually try.

Just one example, even I do have experience, still so far fromIRW USA FB it is not even funny. Using F.ront P.age S.ports: F.ootB.all P.ro series (even though I have been a superstar PWFBL & bad HS player & a PWFBL & bad HS coach- in the best USA FB area in The World, M-Dade County, Fl., it only came to me through FPS: FBP series playing) I invented a complete (from regular plays to special teams) set of Offenses & Prevent Defensive plays. I know they would work IRW USA FB, because I have been a superstar PWFBL & bad HS player & a PWFBL & bad HS coach- in the best USA FB area in The World, M-Dade County, Fl., but because I am boycotting IRW sports, it will never be seen IRW USA FB.

So I could see some IRW teams, programs & franchises hiring only F.ront P.age S.ports: F.ootB.all P.ro series players, to become plays & plays adjustments creators, in the future. I know much of USA FB moves so slow to change that might take a while, but it will happen. The reason for only F.ront P.age S.ports: F.ootB.all P.ro series players is because F.ront P.age S.ports: F.ootB.all P.ro ‘98 still to this day has the very best plays, game plans, profiles creator-editor, & it is not even close.

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BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
i always wonder how the usa would fare in soccer if it actually had its top athletes playing the game. usually its the 4th or 5th tier athletes who play soccer growing up. the upper tiers either go into football, baseball, basketball, or hockey

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- IronBird@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  it’s america, most just go where the $ is. wages are capped, it aint called the labor trap for nothing. you want to escape you better learn to jump or maks your misery entertaining, got go win that lottery or you’re family/community will stay poor for atleast another generation
  
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TheGiantKorean@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
There has been a huge uptick in interest in the sport of weightlifting because of crossfit. Hampton Morris was our first US male Olympics medalist since the 1960s, and Olivia Reeves won gold.

I think for sports like weightlifting talent is pulled away by professional sports. You could go to the Olympics, or you could go play for an NFL team.

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Maeve@kbin.earth ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
It costs a lot of money.

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GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Everyone debating about genetics this genetics that, what given has very to do with, heck is that not part of the here? It is about maturity- drive to do something. As a 40+years of sports IRW watching & what 5-years as a sports coach & 4-years as a FB player, but 40+(3-years longer)-years longer devoted to the sports I can tell you that is what really maters.

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GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
As a Former PWFBL-HS USA FB DE, TE Positional Coach & Degreed & certified in many areas Physical Education Facilitator, that required two-college level courses in Kinesiology & biology of sports, after switching from ESE…
I think there are some that are not in the particular sports that if they trained hard & for long enough Or If as already pointed-out in other posts, if already athletes in other sports competed in sports, that have crossover skills, then they could set new world records in test of those crossover skills, But only some, I think most people are probably thinking too many people could do it.

I compare to contestants on Jeopardy, there are former long t8me champions, that had everyone wondering what made them so smart, bar tenders & Etc., but again, not as many as most of us would believe.

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BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
That’s true about everything. How many Mozarts are out there that never picked up an instrument? My son has a world-class, heartbreaking singing voice, but he has absolutely no interest in pursuing it, even as a hobby.

How many great writers, great chefs, great runners, great artists, even great mathematicians, etc. who just weren’t interested in the subject?

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