There's a thin line between charisma and manipulation

Comments

• agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The difference between persuasion and manipulation is largely subjective.

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• Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  One could use charisma to manipulate; they aren’t opposites to each other.

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• TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  If you’re trying to convince a child to wash their hands, does that count as manipulation? You’re essentially trying to persuade someone to do something they don’t want to do. Sure, the intention isn’t malicious, but the methods are clearly manipulative.

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  • djmikeale@feddit.dk ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Depends on how you convince them. I told my kid “I want you to wash hands after toilet.”, And I always wash my own hands - so he learned it too. I wouldn’t say that this is manipulation, as I was upfront about my intentions. But it was persuasive.

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    • TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I guess that’s the word I was really thinking of. Persuasion sounds more neutral.

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  • LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Manipulation is coercing to do something they wouldn’t normally do, but it’s for YOUR selfish benefit, not theirs.

    Educating someone to do something that they wouldn’t have otherwise done, is for THEIR OWN benefit & health & immediate & future prosperity.

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    • Beebabe@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Manipulation and coercion are different.

      Manipulation is altering people’s motivations until they do the thing you want them to do even if they think it’s their idea in the end. This includes benign changes to environmental conditions. For example, making classroom A entirely analog and classroom B digital fun cracktopia. Some individuals are really rewarded by one or the other.

      Now, I want to alter (change, not necessarily increase or decrease, this is subjective)the motivation to go to cracktopia specifically so i bring those conditions in line with classroom A, analog. The motivation will therefore be altered and reward will be signaled by some other thing. There is no overt punishment or coercion here, just altering of motivation.

      Coercive control necessarily involves aversive items such as punishers or failure to withdraw aversive conditions such as holding a nose until a mouth opens. Or physical full hand-over-hand prompting. Might there be a reason that is acceptable for this? Yeah, some people need help with items of hygiene even into adulthood and even with years of intervention and therapy require physical assistance.

      That is to say, both coercive control and manipulation without coercive control can work to the benefit or be extremely detrimental.

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  • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    If you consider education to be manipulation then sure

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    • Una@europe.pub ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It could be, but then it would mean manipulation is not always bad thing.

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  • yermaw@sh.itjust.works ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I think so, but its the difference between terrorist and freedom fighter. Same thing really just depends who’s side youre on.

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• Beebabe@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  You don’t need any charisma if you can alter motivation. As a behavior analyst nobody likes but everyone listens to.

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  • umbrella@lemmy.ml ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    what do you mean?

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    • Beebabe@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      You don’t specifically need charisma to change behavior. Charismatic behavior makes you a reward. Hence people are more likely to engage to please you. But there are other ways to be rewarding.

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