I don’t blame them for feeling that way. If I see anyone using that shitty flag on their house, their shirt, their car, anywhere, I automatically presume they are a close minded racist cunt.
Yes but that doesn’t matter does it. Because it’s not been used to signal patriotism it’s been used to signal to the rest of the world that there are racist arse wipe
Then stand up and opposed it being used as an anti immigration symbol. Because after the BNP copted it. Any org using it as a sign opposing immigration. Is very clearly an obviously attempting to use that history to scare. Not as a sign patriot ideals.
It depends on the context doesn’t it. Lots of people will fly the England flag or wear an England shirt during a football tournament, and all they mean by that is “I support the England team” without a further political meaning. But the meaning of the current flag-flying from lamp posts seems to essentially be “we don’t want immigrants in the UK” which can make the flags intimidating (which is probably the exact intention).
Here’s another example of context changing meaning. Churchill used to give a two-fingered salute (see picture below), and his intended meaning of that salute was that it was a “V” for “victory” in WW2. But of course these days, that same outwards two-fingered salute means “fuck off”. Context changes the meaning.
Unfortunately I’ve seen this happen before, in Spain.
The national flag of Spain, when used by an individual, rarely ever represents “I love Spain and all that it entails” but rather “I have right-wing views, I only accept the catholic religion, gays aren’t natural, and immigrants should go back to their own countries”.
I don’t know if it can be taken back to just be the national flag, but if it can, Spain hasn’t managed to achieve it in the 20 years since it devolved into a narrow political symbol.
Yes, but the thing is, people just don’t fly it here for no reason.
Unlike the USA, where it was so ridiculous that I played a game with myself called “Turn around and there’ll always be a flag somewhere in front of me” (it really is that insane, their level of nationalism/exceptionalism disguised as patriotism is wild),
…here the flag may be flown for patriotic events (e.g. World Cup), or flown by official institutions, but 99.99% of regular people would never consider flying it for any other reason, and it’s very rarely seen overall. This is normal.
National flags are generally meant to indicate nationality outside of one’s own borders to others around you (e.g. an embassy in a foreign land, or ships at sea). They’re not at all useful on home soil, so why bother flying one?
So, yes, it’s our flag (though not the version people fly that says ENGLAND in big letters in the middle - that’s just stupid). But the people that fly it are almost always bigots and weirdos that you want to stay away from, especially these days.
theskyisfalling@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
I don’t blame them for feeling that way. If I see anyone using that shitty flag on their house, their shirt, their car, anywhere, I automatically presume they are a close minded racist cunt.
Denjin@feddit.uk 1 day ago
Their house usually stinks and has a front garden covered in dog shit.
Source: I also have to go into these people’s houses.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 day ago
It’s the national flag of England.
echodot@feddit.uk 15 hours ago
Yes but that doesn’t matter does it. Because it’s not been used to signal patriotism it’s been used to signal to the rest of the world that there are racist arse wipe
TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Both statements are correct.
It is the national flag of England. It’s also been co-optes by the right as a dog whistle
The ok sign is " just" a common hand sign
14 and 88 are just numbers
Shitheels turned this flag into a gate symbol.
Don’t blame normal people for not wanting to fly it now and assuming the worst if you do
HumanPenguin@feddit.uk 1 day ago
Then stand up and opposed it being used as an anti immigration symbol. Because after the BNP copted it. Any org using it as a sign opposing immigration. Is very clearly an obviously attempting to use that history to scare. Not as a sign patriot ideals.
moderatecentrist@feddit.uk 1 day ago
It depends on the context doesn’t it. Lots of people will fly the England flag or wear an England shirt during a football tournament, and all they mean by that is “I support the England team” without a further political meaning. But the meaning of the current flag-flying from lamp posts seems to essentially be “we don’t want immigrants in the UK” which can make the flags intimidating (which is probably the exact intention).
Here’s another example of context changing meaning. Churchill used to give a two-fingered salute (see picture below), and his intended meaning of that salute was that it was a “V” for “victory” in WW2. But of course these days, that same outwards two-fingered salute means “fuck off”. Context changes the meaning.
A photo of Winston Churchill in 1942, riding in a car, directing an outward two-fingered salute (with palm facing towards him) to the camera. Photo is taken from Wikipedia’s page named “V sign”.
Jrockwar@feddit.uk 1 day ago
Unfortunately I’ve seen this happen before, in Spain.
The national flag of Spain, when used by an individual, rarely ever represents “I love Spain and all that it entails” but rather “I have right-wing views, I only accept the catholic religion, gays aren’t natural, and immigrants should go back to their own countries”.
I don’t know if it can be taken back to just be the national flag, but if it can, Spain hasn’t managed to achieve it in the 20 years since it devolved into a narrow political symbol.
obinice@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Yes, but the thing is, people just don’t fly it here for no reason.
Unlike the USA, where it was so ridiculous that I played a game with myself called “Turn around and there’ll always be a flag somewhere in front of me” (it really is that insane, their level of nationalism/exceptionalism disguised as patriotism is wild),
…here the flag may be flown for patriotic events (e.g. World Cup), or flown by official institutions, but 99.99% of regular people would never consider flying it for any other reason, and it’s very rarely seen overall. This is normal.
National flags are generally meant to indicate nationality outside of one’s own borders to others around you (e.g. an embassy in a foreign land, or ships at sea). They’re not at all useful on home soil, so why bother flying one?
So, yes, it’s our flag (though not the version people fly that says ENGLAND in big letters in the middle - that’s just stupid). But the people that fly it are almost always bigots and weirdos that you want to stay away from, especially these days.
Bassman27@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The swastika was once a religious symbol. What’s your point?
DagwoodIII@piefed.social 1 day ago
That’s the thing with symbols.
In some neighborhoods, you can’t wear anything red [or blue] because those are the colors of the local gangs.
Back in the day, a lot of businesses had names like “Kooper’s Kustom Kreations” to let folks know who ran the place.
Gladaed@feddit.org 1 day ago
Yes.