Did Border Control exist in previous eras? (Say, like 500+ years ago or more) Can people go to other places? If so, what does the procedure look like? Just walk across a border?

⁨105⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

Like, I don’t think passports exist, right? Could a person travel to another Empire/Kingdom?

source

Comments

Sort:hotnew top

Wrufieotnak@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Passports for everyone are a relatively new invention, but passports as sign of being the emissary of somebody important are much older. Paiza is one such example in the Mongols empire. Wikipedia has examples reaching into antiquity.

500+ years ago there very much was border control, at least in certain parts of the world, because every regional lord wants to control what goes into his kingdom and what leaves. I can only speak for Europe, but probably every feudal lord over the world did the same. They levied taxes on merchants transporting goods through their kingdom. That happened on border checkpoints where the big merchant routes where passing through. This is how a lot of regions got rich: by being between a source and a big buyer region and taxing the shit out of merchants.

That’s why smuggling was so attractive. Go through the official road and pay 10% of your profits or pay this nice man with the donkey 5% and he leads you through the woods on a path the lord’s soldiers don’t patrol…

Secondly, in feudal Europe 500 years ago, peasants were still often the property of their lords, they weren’t allowed to leave the country. Another reason why border control existed. So no, most normal people could not just leave and travel to another kingdom.

source
- DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  peasants were still often the property of their lords, they weren’t allowed to leave the country
  
  As someone who have move away from my place of birth, now I appreciate the modern world even more after reading this comment. So much freedom nowadays (well… except for certain countries).
  
  source
  - Lumisal@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Well, a modern form of that still sort of exists today, except the leash is longer.
    
    You cannot for example just get rid of your US citizenship - you have to pay to get rid of it, and as long as you have it, you’re susceptible to paying taxes to the USA. Even if you have dual citizenship.
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
  - Wrufieotnak@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Oh hell yes. There is still a lot to improve, but we shouldn’t forget what has already been gained!
    
    source
- A_norny_mousse@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  They levied taxes on merchants transporting goods through their kingdom. That happened on border checkpoints where the big merchant routes where passing through. This is how a lot of regions got rich: by being between a source and a big buyer region and taxing the shit out of merchants.
  
  There are places that are still named after having been such tax/tariff points. Or buildings, inns etc. And the New Testament of course.
  
  source
kersploosh@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Borders have existed as long as humans have claimed territory. Borders are only meaningful to the extent they are enforced, so border control has existed in some form or another for all that time.

Borders have been a bit fuzzy at many times and places. The farther one travels from a seat of power, the harder it is for that power to patrol and control the area. Thus we get borderlands, places at the fringes of a government’s authority.

In addition to borders, documents analogous to passports have existed for millennia. If you wanted to travel from your kingdom to another kingdom, your monarch might send you off with an official letter requesting your safe passage through whatever kingdoms you need to cross.

source
- HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  alls that really mattered before a certain point was taxation. I would not be surprised if some contested areas had tax collectors from two different countries collecting from the peasants. The fuedal system was essentally a way to organize tax collection. Local lords collected form the territory they were given dominion over and they had to kick it up the chain.
  
  source
  - Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Reminds me of a scene in The Chosen where people are camping outside of a small settlement to see Jesus, so the Romans claim a bit more land for that settlement to collect taxes from them
    
    source
Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
The earliest passport is recorded by Nehemiah, a Hebrew Prophet and is canonised in the Christian old testament.

Nehemiah 2:7-10 ESV

And I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, let letters be given me to the governors of the province Beyond the River, that they may let me pass through until I come to Judah, and a letter to Asaph, the keeper of the king’s forest, that he may give me timber to make beams for the gates of the fortress of the temple, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall occupy.” And the king granted me what I asked, for the good hand of my God was upon me. Then I came to the governors of the province Beyond the River and gave them the king’s letters. Now the king had sent with me officers of the army and horsemen. But when Sanballat the Horonite and Tobiah the Ammonite servant heard this, it displeased them greatly that someone had come to seek the welfare of the people of Israel.

Generally, I believe taxes and such were carried out at settlements.

Border lines were more arbitrary and typically followed rivers and mountains (as do many European borders today)

An exception being Hadrian’s Wall

Here’s a video on it:

youtu.be/k46r_pKW4LQ

source
davidgro@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
At some point wasn’t it actual stone walls around cities, with guards at the gates checking people?

source
- Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Those guards used to be an adventurer like you. But then they took an arrow to the knee.
  
  source
  - Drbreen@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
    
    source
- mean_bean279@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I mean… one of the great wonders of the world is literally a border wall with its own border patrol that was placed on it. Albeit a lot more complex than that, but that’s sort of the gist of it. It helped to keep “invaders” out and operated as an early warning system, but effectively was a border patrol.
  
  source
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I imagine the issue wasn’t so much migrating itself, but the question of how do you feed yourself and your family in the new land?

500 years ago most people were farmers. So you had to possess some land to have food. So, where do you get that land from?

source
- GladiusB@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Also language. It’s not so easy to find a translator in the old world.
  
  source
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
In some form, yes. However, a lot of it centered around import fees instead of restricting immigration. It would also usually center around cities, bridges, toll roads, and ports rather than open fields.

If you were the wrong ethnic type in a city, they’d just kill you.

source
- gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  do you have any sources about this?
  
  source
- DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  If you were the wrong ethnic type in a city, they’d just kill you.
  
  💀
  
  Its miraculous how multi-culturlism exists in the modern world, I mean, sure there’s still racism, but so far, as a racial minority in a diverse city in an immigration country, I’ve not been lynched (not yet, anyways 👀), I think its kinda beautiful how, for the most part, humans have come to tolerate each other regardless of skin color (I’m mostly talking about Immigration Countries like Canada, countries in EU, and US… at least prior to Nov. 2024)
  
  Of course, there are always extremists who are trying to turn back time with stupid nationalism stuff.
  
  source
  - nylo@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    to be fair it is pretty comprehensible but I am amazed at your eleven-comma-having paragraph sentence.
    
    bravo! long live the comma!
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
stoly@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
These things have existed for as long as cities did but worried mostly about import duties than immigrants. In most of history, having more people to do useful things was a good thing and they tended not to block immigration except when there might be ethnic or racial tensions and such.

source
WaitThisIsntReddit@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Border patrol has existed since the first person thought some land was theirs. Our ancestors clubbed other tribes to death to protect and expand borders.

source
makyo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I was surprised while reading German 20th century history that people were required to check in even in new towns. Explain their reasons for being there and how long they were going to stay. This was even if you were German. I would love to know more but it seemed like a less formal system - lile you had ID but it helped if you knew people there and or had good reason to be there and plans for when you were leaving.

source
Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
For example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_(Roman_Empire)

source
Muscle_Meteor@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
History matters Video

source
herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Border control was practically impossible until the very modern era (last 100 years or so). The infrastructure for controlling borders only became possible due to technology.

source
- sbeak@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  May I introduce to you the wall? There’s a whole wonder of the world that’s a wall: a Great one in China.
  
  Also, there used to be people on those walls with pokey things that hurt. People outside the empire/nation/whatever they called it back then didn’t want to go near it when they weren’t supposed to, since they didn’t want to be poked by the pokey things.
  
  With the invention of firearms, you can shoot a tiny pokey thing really fast! Pokey things have really advanced over the years, for the better or worse.
  
  source
  - herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    The Great Wall was not very effective. China has been successfully invaded many times, including (but not limited to) the Jurchen, Mongols, Manchus and many many others.
    
    And the Great Wall is an exception. Most walls were around cities, not countries.
    
    source
  - gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    like, wasn’t the great wall of china (which is actually multiple walls, btw) more a military thing to keep the raiders out?
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
  - shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    You still have to have loads of humans to man those walls, along with paying them and the associated logistics. Firearms weren’t too great a range until the 20th century.
    
    You could control choke points, but nothing was stopping a random dude from walking in through the forest or desert.
    
    source
    -> View More Comments
- shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  All a country could do was control choke points, and they had to fight up close and personal. Closest you could get to monitoring was paying scouts or dudes in towers. With the advent of vehicles, roads became more important, and more of a choke point.
  
  But nothing would stop a random dude walking in from the Canadian forests and Mexican deserts. Other countries can give us other examples.
  
  source
ProfessorPeregrine@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Great story about the US border: www.npr.org/2025/09/11/…/line-fence-wall

source