how to start with self-hosting?

Submitted ⁨⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨artiman@piefed.social⁩ to ⁨selfhosted@lemmy.world⁩

I have been wanting to self-host recently I have an old laptop it's a Toshiba satellite m100-221 sitting around it only has 4gb of ram, but I don't know what is a good starting point for an OS for my home lab I discovered yunohost but heard mixed opinions about it when searching I would like lemmy's opinion on a good OS for a beginner wanting to start a home lab.

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Magnum@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You can still tinker with YunoHost

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uranibaba@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Figure out what you want to host.

Read up on what is required to host that.

Understand what is required to host that.

Skip step 3, wing it and search the internet as you go.
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- Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Essentially what I did to some degree.
  
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  - uranibaba@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Same here. I remember playing minecraft and wanted to install some mod on my server. There were instructions and I followed them. Problems? Search the web.
    
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- ksigley@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Thank you for this guide.
  
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  - uranibaba@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    You are welcome.
    
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oeuf@slrpnk.net ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’ve been using YUNOhost for the last 3 years and it’s been great. I had no prior experience and would have had no chance of self-hosting without it.

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spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
4gb isn’t much ram, but it can be surprisingly useful if you configure Zswap. Lots of guides out there. Here’s one of them.

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dizzy@lemmy.ml ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I used yunohost for a bit and while it was easy setup, it wasn’t easy to troubleshoot weird errors because hardly anyone uses it.

I’d recommend setting up:

debian with a desktop environment to start with

figure out how to ssh into it from your main machine and maybe how to use tmux

docker and how docker works

self-hosting services using docker
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cecilkorik@lemmy.ca ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’ll add a vote to all the people suggesting Yunohost. Yunohost is a perfect place to get your feet wet with basically no experience required. I’ve played with it myself and it does a good job of simplifying and holding your hand without oversimplifying or keeping you on a strict, tight leash. It even helps you deal with common newbie issues like dynamic IPs so you can become more reliably available on the internet, something that a lot of other guides just assume you’re going to have a static IP assigned by your ISP or VPS and handwave away the complexity of what you’ll have to do if you have a dynamic IP like most home connections. (Experienced self-hosters gradually discover that having access to a static IP somewhere, anywhere, makes life a lot easier, but don’t worry, you’ll get there too eventually, it’s not important when getting started)

You can get started by working your way through the process here.

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- 3dcadmin@lemmy.relayeasy.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I agree but I do have to say that Yunohost is becoming bloated. Successive versions run way slower than they used to - I know it is part of the security and ease of use but it is becoming noticeable. You can also use some docker things in yunohost but for an absolute beginner Yunohost is by far the best way to do it.
  
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billwashere@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Start with docker. Any OS will do. Most Linux distros are better but I run docker on Mac, Linux, Windows (not a lot in windows since I despise Microsoft but it does work).

The great thing about docker is it is very portable, modular, and easy to get back to a known state. Say you screw something up, just revert and start over. It’s also very easy to understand in my opinion. It’s like all the benefits of virtualization with much less over head.

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- mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yeah, my only note is that Docker on Windows is… Kinda fucky? It uses WSL to run Linux in the background, which means that the volumes it creates aren’t easily accessible by Windows. If your container requires editing a config.json, for instance, that can be daunting for a newbie on Windows, because they won’t even know how to find the file.
  
  You can work around this by mounting your volumes directly to a C:\ folder instead, but that’s something that many tutorials just completely skip past because they assume you already know that.
  
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  - billwashere@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I’ve never understood the reason for WSL. If you want Linux, run Linux. At the very least in a VM.
    
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Kirk@startrek.website ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
XKCD 2501 applies in this thread.

OP, get CasaOS or Yunohost. Very very simple. Your laptop is fine (you’ll probably want to upgrade the ram soon).

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- darkan15@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  XKCD 2501 applies in this thread.
  
  I agree, there are so many layers of complexity in self-hosting, that most of us tend to forget, when the most basic thing would be a simple bare metal OS and Docker
  
  you’ll probably want to upgrade the ram soon
  
  His hardware has a max ram limit of 4, so the only probable upgrade he could do is a SATA SSD, even so I’m running around 15 docker containers on similar specs so as a starting point is totally fine.
  
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  - Korhaka@sopuli.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Surely most basic is an old computer and double clicking minecraft_server.jar? Pretty sure that is the first server I ran for people outside of my LAN actually.
    
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  - BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    simple bare metal OS and Docker
    
    That’s exactly what the XKCD is about, what you wrote is just like the chemical formulas they are talking about in the comic for your average person
    
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darkan15@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I have a Dell Inspiron 1545, that has similar specs to yours running Debian with Docker and around 15 services in containers, so my recommendation would be to run Debian server (with no DE), install docker, and start from there.

I would not recommend proxmox or virtual machines to a newbie, and would instead recommend running stuff on a bare metal installation of Debian.

There are a bunch of alternatives to manage and ease the management of apps you could choose from like, yunohost, casaOS, Yacht, Cosmos Cloud, cockpit, etc. that you can check out and use on top of Debian if you prefer, but I would still recommend spending time on learning how to do stuff yourself directly with Docker (using docker compose files), and you can use something like Portainer or Dockge to help you manage your containers.

My last recommendation would be that when you are testing and trying stuff, don’t put your only copy of important data on the server, in case something break you will lose it. Invest time on learning how to properly backup/sync/restore your data so you have a safety net in case that something happens, you have a way to recover.

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- bradbeattie@lemmy.ca ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  As a counterpoint to no proxmox, I get a lot of utility in being able to entirely destroy and reprovision VMs. I get it adds a layer of complexity, but it’s not without its merits!
  
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  - darkan15@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I get your point, and know it has its merits, I would actually recommend Proxmox for a later stage when you are familiar with handling the basics of a server, and also if you have hardware that can properly handle virtualization, for OP that has a machine that is fairly old and low specs, and also is a newbie, I think fewer layers of complexity would be a better starting point, and then in the future they can build on top of that.
    
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adarza@lemmy.ca ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
don’t expect a 19 year old laptop to perform all the tricks something more ‘modern’ can do, such as transcoding video for a streaming media server. also note that a t5600 is not a ulv chip (draws as much as 34w under load, on its own)–so probably not a candidate to run ‘lid down’ without some outside help for cooling.

it’s not fast, it’s not power efficient, it has slow networking (10/100 and 22-year old ‘g’ wifi), and lacks usb3 for ‘tolerable’ speed on extra external storage space—but it will be ‘ok enough’ for learning on.

if you go with something like yunohost or even dietpi, you will pretty much restrict yourself to what it can run and do and how it does it. if you want more ‘control’ or to install things they don’t offer themselves, you’ll need to ‘roll your own’. a base (console only) debian would be a great place to start. popular, stable, and tons of online resources and tutorials.

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- freebee@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I don’t know about yunohost, but dietpi doesn’t feel restrictive. You can use the dietpi software manager, but you can also install whatever else you want next it using apt, docker, etc, adjust systemd, Cron, rsync etc outside of it. They just don’t guarantee they might sometimes break a thing you run outside of what they offer when you run dietpi updates?
  
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downhomechunk@midwest.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Step 1: Install proxmox

Step 2: run the post install script here, disable anything enterprise, test or related to high availability.

Step 3: check out the other scripts on the link. I suggest starting with a pi hole and experimenting from there.

community-scripts.github.io/ProxmoxVE/

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- sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That sounds overly complicated, why get VMs involved? Just install Debian or something and get things working.
  
  Proxmox is good if you know you want multiple VMs running for specialized needs. But multiple VMs isn’t happening on 4GB RAM.
  
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  - downhomechunk@midwest.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Your approach works too. Something like CasaOS answers OP’s question directly. I was thinking about how I started on this journey. I wanted to play with enterprise level tools at home on repurposed e-waste. So I started with proxmox. But I also came to the table with a couple decades of Linux experience under my belt.
    
    Those scripts make it so easy. You can paste a command, accept defaults, watch some text scroll by and finish with instructions on how to access the tool you just installed.
    
    My homelab is low power as well. I’m currently running zero VMs. Everything is done with LXCs. You can run a pi hole on 512 MB RAM.
    
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  - Windex007@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Easily can have multiple LXCs, and being able to take snapshots for backup is probably a nice thing to have if you’re just learning.
    
    And if they get more hardware, moving VMs to other clustered proxmox instances is a snap.
    
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rtxn@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Proxmox is a great starting point. I use it in my home server and at work. It’s built on Debian, with a web interface to manage your virtual machines and containers, the virtual network (trivial unless you need advanced features), virtual disks, and installer images.

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Botzo@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I might recommend starting with a project.

Something like getting pi-hole running. This would help you learn some of the networking basics. But I’d recommend reading at least enough to have a conceptual foundation about the things you don’t understand along the way (DNS, DHCP, etc).

You’ll want one of their supported OS choices to keep things simple. That means one of: fedora, debian, ubuntu, or centos. I might steer you away from centos just because its user base is a bit more linux-pro so finding specific help might be more daunting, but I don’t have much experience with it either. Maybe use a “server” variant to keep your system demand to a minimum (boot to terminal only).

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Damage@feddit.it ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
RAM is a bit limiting, but OpenMediaVault is a NAS OS with a serviceable docker interface.

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dihutenosa@piefed.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Step 1: be psychologically prepared to break it all. Don't depend on your services, at first, and don't host stuff for others, for the same reason.

Yunohost? Good for trying out stuff, I suppose. I haven't tried it myself. You could also try Debian, Alpine, or any other. They're approximately equivalent. Any differences between distros will be minuscule compared to differences between software packages (Debian is much more similar to Alpine than Nextcloud to Syncthing).

4GB of RAM? Don't set up a graphical interface. You don't need a desktop environment to run a server. Connect to it via SSh from your regular PC or phone. Set up pubkey auth and then disable password auth.

I recommend setting up SSH login first, then a webserver serving up HTTP, only, accessible via IP address.

Next comes DNS - get a name at https://freedns.afraid.org

Then add HTTPS, get the certs from LetsEncrypt.

Finally, Nextcloud. It runs kind of "inside" your webserver. Now you can back up your phone, and share photos with family, etc.

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- Magnum@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  YunoHost runs on Debian and basically just automates installs via scripts. Its easy to handle and still leaves open to ssh into the machine and learn/understand everything if you want to. Having to real knowledge about tech, networks, Linux etc will lead to nothing when sitting in front of an empty Debian box
  
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- Lumisal@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  asks for help starting with new tech stuff for the first time
  
  Comment that tells them to not use a GUI has 20 upvotes so far
  
  This is why it won’t be the year of Linux anytime soon. Basically sending someone new straight into the deep end.
  
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  - dihutenosa@piefed.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Eh, OP says:
    
    I am familiar with Linux and comfortable in terminal
    
    ... and is constrained by little RAM. My stance stands.
    
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baduhai@sopuli.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
So, it might not sound like much, but 4gb of ram is plenty enough to do quite a bit with self hosting.

If you want to self host, and use it as an opportunity to learn, I recommend you install Debian, and get your hands dirty. If just want to self host without much of a headache, yunohost seems cool, but I’ve never used it, so I can’t recommend it.

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melroy@kbin.melroy.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Nobody is saying it, so I will. The most important thing is to just get started!

It doesn't matter if you go for a plain Debian server or a fancy proxmox installation with high availability. I believe the most important thing is just to start and experiment. And enjoy!

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MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Install Debian as a server with no GUI, install docker on it and start playing around.

You can use Komodo or Portainer if you want a webUI to manage containers easily.

If you put any important data on it, set up backups first, follow the 3-2-1 rule by having at least 2 backups in place.

The problem with stuff like yunohost is when it breaks you have no idea how to fix it, because it hides everything in the background.

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muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I run Debian headless and run things with docker.

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LazerDickMcCheese@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Hosting isn’t OS specific, and in my experience its more about docker. But as far OS goes, I’d say Debian or Ubuntu with the intent of moving onto something like Proxmox

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bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Without knowing what you actually want to do, I’d put Debian on it. Very good, very stable, very widespread OS with plenty of tutorials around for whatever you decide to do with it. Do a minimal installation and 4 GB RAM are plenty to play around with.

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- uranibaba@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I second Debian because of the amount of information out there.
  
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- melroy@kbin.melroy.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yup Debian would also be my way of getting started.
  
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- fossilesque@mander.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I use debian for my ancient media server. It’s great.
  
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  - adarza@lemmy.ca ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    i use dietpi, which is built upon a minimal debian.
    
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  - bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Even better when you’re already familiar with it. And I’d consider a media server to already be “selfhosting”.
    
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