How much time before someone figures these infrastructures make very good targets for vandalism? I risk I will see datacenters destroyed by mobs and other actors before I die.
Imagine not being able to shower, because AI slop generator machines need that water!
Submitted 7 months ago by ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world to aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/1602a8f3-ab4f-4d7c-8727-b24409cf3e6c.jpeg
Comments
qyron@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz 7 months ago
Some time ago i passed near a famous e-commerce warehouse and the place was surrounded by a 4 meter tall fence and a moat.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
Man the trebuchets!
AA5B@lemmy.world 7 months ago
In theory we have elected representatives looking out for their constituents. Surely they would limit water use so this wouldn’t happen, and prevent the datacenters from relying on generators while waiting for power hookup, right? Oh, a red state. Never mind
qyron@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
In my country, I know of two cases of datacenters that use waste water. And another is supposed to run on salt water, in the future. Those cases don’t trouble me.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 7 months ago
It’s not vandalism, it’s direct action. Or sabotage, if you consider this to be a time of war (which it undoubtedly is — a class war). Don’t use the enemy’s language against ourselves.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
Allow me to use whatever words I want.
On this specific example, I’ll even call it constructive vandalism. It will pass on a very loud message.
turdburglar@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
please start with grok.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 7 months ago
No wonder the government don’t want anymore report on climate change.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 7 months ago
Actual interesting question:
How much energy and resources would we save by simply slowing down AI response time? A lot of the time you get an instant response from an LLM, and sure, it looks impressive, but most of the time you don’t need it that urgently.
Lulzagna@lemmy.world 7 months ago
The majority of energy consumed is for training the AI models, not providing output from those models.
This means the water consumption is not tied to usage and prompts. Also it means resource consumption to train models is temporary, relative to the model.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Oh ok. So they’ll put the water back once the models are trained?
Tangent5280@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I disagree. I think the biggest consumers of AI currently use it for work, and depending on the type of work I think very fast ai == more customers.
nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br 7 months ago
Another interesting question:
How much energy and resources would we save by simply slowing down Ai usage? A lot of the time people make unnecessary prompts or receive unhelpful generated text, and sure, it looks impressive, but most of the time you don’t need it at all.
grue@lemmy.world 7 months ago
At scale? None. If we assume that (a) the number of queries are constant (i.e. that the slow response doesn’t drive away users) and (b) that the efficiency is the same whether it’s fast or slow, then having computers that take longer to calculate each response just means you need to have more of them working in parallel to service the demand.
Now, for a home user running AI locally, you could maybe save some energy by using more efficient silicon since you only need it to process one query at a time (assuming lower-spec parts actually are more efficient, which may or may not be the case), but that’s not really what we’re talking about here.
ansiz@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I don’t get the news about these data centers guzzling water, where is the water going? If it’s for cooling, but that doesn’t destroy the water…
Canonical_Warlock@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 months ago
They use adiabatic gas coolers on their refrigeration systems. Basically there is a perpetually wet piece of media that air runs through before it gets to the refrigeration coils. By running through that wet media you precool the air basically down to the current dewpoint by evaporating water and therefore you’re cooling the refrigeration coils with colder air which leads to more efficient opperation and reduces the size of the gas coolers required. From what I’ve seen a lot of these datacenters are also switching to CO2 based refirgeration systems which are generally better except the low critical temp of CO2 mean that their efficiency starts to drop quickly once the ambient temp gets much above 80F. Using adiabatic coolers mostly removes that shortfall.
Zacryon@feddit.org 7 months ago
It’s always a good idea to put computer centers in areas with water scarcity. /s
azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Well, it could work. If the local government gave a shit. Which they don’t, because Texas. But the water going into a datacenter does come out… The main downside being that it’s hotter (which is a limiting factor, you can’t run it in a loop without some big cooling system, and rivers/lakes are by far the most effective way way to do that).
The article I saw doesn’t say what the problem is exactly. Is the datacenter pumping from an aquifer rather than a lake/river? Are they raising the temperature in ways that affect the environment negatively? Are they abusing the municipal water supply instead of pumping their own water, forcing the taxpayer to essentially subsidize their infrastructure? Lots that could go wrong, but it’s all shit that should be fully figured out during the permitting process.
Patches@ttrpg.network 7 months ago
I mean from Microsoft’s perspective it is working out…
Until someone goes all eco terrorism.
bold_atlas@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I often wondered about how much chaos one or two individuals were to just pump 5 or 6 high powered rounds on that place from 2,000 yards out. Then do again another day from a different spot, and then another day at different facility.
Yeah damage and casualties would be insignificant at those ranges but the fear and panic as random bullets crack over head in the parking lot, punching holes in the roof. The place would have to shut down while they search for damage and FBI will also take forever recovering every bullet fragment evidence. It would take two or three of these in a row before the police realized they weren’t just loose bullets from drunks shooting into the air.
It would lead to a total loss of productivity. Like they would have to treat every facility with same security levels as fucking Groom Lake after something like started happening lol. Or maybe they would just fuck off to somewhere far away from crazy gun loving Americans.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 7 months ago
In hot areas with water scarcity.
Silic0n_Alph4@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Well, yeah. If you put it somewhere cold like the Arctic it’ll melt the ice caps and make global warming worse. Better to let the cold places stay cold and put the hot data centres somewhere that’s already hot! Sorted - no more global warming (just some localised warming I guess)
“I’ll just put this over here with the rest of the fire” image from The IT Crowd
ToastedRavioli@midwest.social 7 months ago
And an electrical grid held together by duct tape and chewing gum
LordWiggle@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Yes that’s what Americans voted for.
unconsequential@slrpnk.net 7 months ago
Why aren’t they building these things underground or repurposing old mines in areas where geothermal is plentiful for power and aquifers are stable, instead of in water-poor, temperature extreme places like Texas and KY? …Oh right, poverty and red voters. Better to exploit and damage then have some upfront cost and long-term stability. I forget.
haloduder@thelemmy.club 7 months ago
Texas is a shithole and texans are morons.
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 months ago
Building anything like this is seen as a jobs creator. Data center companies then pass the proposal around to municipalities and ask them who want jobs. These places then bend over backwards to offer tax incentives, fast permitting, etc. with no regard to whether their location can actually support the building.
So of course they get built in the most corrupt places.
Taleya@aussie.zone 7 months ago
The jobs in question are highly specialised and would be entrusted to existing employees only though
Patches@ttrpg.network 7 months ago
Yep most local governments will give tens of millions away for “local jobs” even if there’s only like 3 local jobs.
Could literally just hand those 3 people 4 million each, and save the headache.
Snowclone@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Is cooling water not reusable? Shouldn’t these be closed systems?
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Apparently closed loop systems are not good enough for these kinds of applications, and often instead use evaporative. Which kind of logical, since they’re not running a single factory overclocked GPU with a top of the line desktop CPU, but a cluster of factory overclocked GPUs with a server CPU.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 7 months ago
So they build the computing centers in hot areas with water scarcity and make the air hot-humid?
dgriffith@aussie.zone 7 months ago
Apparently closed loop systems are not
goodcheap enoughThere I fixed that for you.
Laser@feddit.org 7 months ago
People should be angry and upset about this. Similar to the story some weeks ago where residents of a small Texan town (seemingly rightfully at first) complained about the noise pollution of a Bitcoin mining farm. Turns out they all voted Republican. It’s always “we’ll deregulate and bring business” just that the modern businesses they bring are a net negative for the area except for the politicians and the companies. Is almost like these regulations were there for a reason.
Both Bitcoin and AI are stupid VC money that only matters in a very small bubble, and they’re not business in a traditional sense. They just leech resources at their compute centers to make the people who own them and live far away rich. I pity all this who didn’t vote for this kind of bullshit. The rest, enjoy your shorter showers and everything else! But remember, it’s the Dems who want to dictate stuff like water usage. Not in my free country! Oh, the water is gone because a greedy Corp stole it? That’s fine, one day it’s my turn to be rich.
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz 7 months ago
If you care about the environment and are upset about corporations and their datacenters your best voting option is neither the red or blue party.
Laser@feddit.org 7 months ago
It doesn’t matter if you voted Republican. These problems are a direct consequence of Republican policies that they announced before the elections. Fearmongering about “any party left of us will take away your freedoms to limit your resource consumption” is a trait of far-right parties. My point was not about Democrats. It was about people who vote Republican.
The US has a political problem with its voting system that benefits two parties, and they won’t get rid of it. As long as this is the case, no other party matters. Also, Dems usually enact more regulations for the environment; see also California.
I voted neither Reps or Dems because I live in the EU, and my vote always went to Greens or other environmental parties.
bigfondue@lemmy.world 7 months ago
You could consider them an extractive industry like mineral mining. In this case the electricity and water are turned into profit. It creates some local jobs like construction, but the system administrators are likely hired from elsewhere. The R&D is likely being done elsewhere as well. Most of the money these businesses spend goes straight to Nvidia and the profit goes straight to a small group of executives and investors.
Laser@feddit.org 7 months ago
At least mining did create some local jobs, though I do think that the area itself loses out because it’s a finite resource and the environmental impact is always there. And as you said, these modern examples don’t really require a big local workforce. It doesn’t stimulate the local economy a bit.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
If you live in Texas, leave.
Texas_Hangover@lemmy.radio 7 months ago
I wish… We get over a thousand new residents a day. It’s awful.
Almacca@aussie.zone 7 months ago
If AI centres need so much cooling, why are they building them in Texas in the first place?
haloduder@thelemmy.club 7 months ago
Texans are some of the dumbest Americans, so they are proud to allow businesses to exploit them.
haloduder@thelemmy.club 7 months ago
Texans are some of the dumbest Americans, so they are proud to allow businesses to exploit them.
haloduder@thelemmy.club 7 months ago
Texans are some of the dumbest Americans, so they are proud to allow businesses to exploit them.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 7 months ago
Solar power?
Almacca@aussie.zone 7 months ago
Apparently only partially, but mostly a natural gas plant to even further wreck the planet.
There’s hundreds of billions of dollars available to pour into this, and for what benefit to the nation? Meanwhile, the rest of the country’s infrastructure is crumbling.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Lack of regulations of all kinds
Almacca@aussie.zone 7 months ago
On a suspicion, I had a quick look, and of course there’s also tax incentives, apparently.
Love this quote “Texas had long been a preferred location for large data centers given its central location, economic climate, reliable electric grid, historically low occurrences of natural disasters, educated workforce and pro-business environment.” :|
sexy_peach@feddit.org 7 months ago
It’s hilarious that so many people see Americans as free people
CXORA@aussie.zone 7 months ago
It’s worse, Americans choose over and over again to suffer, as long as other people suffer too.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 months ago
Land of the fee and the home of the slave.
s@piefed.world 7 months ago
Don’t feed the people but we feed the machines
Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org 7 months ago
The machines make money. The people cost money.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip 7 months ago
Why can’t they use the shit and piss water to cool their shit instead of asking people to cut back on water usage?
sartalon@lemmy.world 7 months ago
They can.
My wife is working on a solar project whose off taker is a data center that is doing exactly this.
JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Oh, and THEN, the AI will ask you to go take a shower if you’re feeling dry, dirty or thirsty. I mean after telling you why taking a shower is good, why people take showers, which celebrities took showers the past week and asks if you want to ads taking a shower to next week’s reminders.
JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 7 months ago
My country is int he middle of a data center boom, fuelled by the usual royal and political, uh, inputs. We also have seasonal droughts, which often result in water rationing and angry people upset at the mismanagement of our resources. Wonder which will give way first.
eatham@aussie.zone 7 months ago
What does a data center need that much water for?
9point6@lemmy.world 7 months ago
To compensate for the fact that Texas is a stupid place to build something that needs a lot of cooling
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Cooling. Even closed loops evaporate a lot.
SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 7 months ago
Closed loops evaporate stuff all. This is 100% from evaporative cooling towers.
If they were using DX or air-to-water chillers the water usage would be negligible. Like how often you top up the radiator in your car.
SpeedRunner@europe.pub 7 months ago
Actually yes. They did vote for this.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 7 months ago
If a salesman misrepresents his product in any way of form, he gets called a swindler, faces potential legal consequences, and the people who bought his product are called “victims”.
If a politician does this, it’s just “business as usual”, and his voters were supposed to do enough research to make the correct choice.
Goun@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
@grok this true?
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 7 months ago
incomprehensible text about being mechahitler
Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Grok: “Antisemetic, communist bankers are being stingy with public water.”
SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Talk about dystopian headlines
xx3rawr@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
A boring one