Sealioning - a community for posting examples of sealioning and other forms of trolling on social networks

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• Pyro@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  TIL

  Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity (“I’m just trying to have a debate”), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter.[5][6][7][8] It may take the form of “incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate”,[9] and has been likened to a denial-of-service attack targeted at human beings.[10] The term originated with a 2014 strip of the webcomic Wondermark by David Malki,[1] which The Independent called “the most apt description of Twitter you’ll ever see”.[2]

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It’s actually a strategy of spreading bullshit and then somehow blaming the person who asks you to back it up.

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah I’m kind of mixed on this concept, because there is nothing wrong with asking for a source and/or asking someone to explain their position. And it seems like a really bad idea to discourage people from asking questions like that.

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    • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah. I strongly dislike this whole classification that politely asking someone to back up what they said, or asking basic questions about it, is proof that you’re a terrible person and grounds for immediately quitting the conversation.

      It also strikes me as relevant that the same people who say it is a sin, also tend to have no problem with overtly toxic behavior like slinging extreme abuse at anyone who disagrees with them or otherwise being an asshole.

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  • inlandempire@jlai.lu ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Do you have a source for this ? Just trying to understand

    🤡

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  • frenchfryenjoyer@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    A lot of people don’t know what it is which the sealions use to their advantage so recognising it is a sealion’s kryptonite lol. glad it helped!

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  • TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This is just used to shut people down who have legitimate complaints. Like, replace ‘sealions’ with ‘black people’ in the comic, and I would be surprised to find many people who still think it’s ok.

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  • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The problem I’ve always had with the term is that you can’t really define a term by pointing to a comic and going like, “It’s like when someone does this sort of thing.” Like there’s a bunch of things the sea lion is doing, one is:

    pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence

    Like if you get a grudge against a user and constantly hound them in every thread about a topic they don’t want to discuss, that’s pretty rude (and if you do this offline like in the comic, it’s straight-up harassment). That’s bad regardless of what form it takes. Another is:

    maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity (“I’m just trying to have a debate”), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter

    “Feigning ignorance of the subject matter,” is also part of the Socratic Method, isn’t it? I don’t think it’s inherently bad to be like, “What specifically does this term mean, and why do you think this specific case meets the criteria?” If you believe something, you ought to be able to state things in clear terms, and that’s an important part of a healthy debate, it helps the other side to identify the point of disagreement where they disagree with your reasoning. Otherwise, how do you even go about having a productive conversation with someone you disagree with at all?

    In my opinion, even when these sorts of internet neologisms are dangerous even if they are addressing a legitimate thing, because once it’s out there, you can’t control who’s going to use it. For example, “mansplaining” was intended to refer to a specific type of thing where a man assumes he’s an expert on a subject and explains in a paternalistic way, while often being ignorant of the subject matter, like random guys on Twitter trying to lecture a female astronaut about how space works. But there are also people who use it/interpret it to mean, “Whenever a man explains something” - even if he is actually qualified to speak on the subject, which provokes a backlash (and obviously the problem is made worse by people trying to exacerbate the backlash, including through sockpuppets).

    The ambiguity of the term “sealioning” allows it to be used to shut down good faith questions and discussion, while leaving the accused without a lot of options to defend themself. “What do you mean by ‘sealioning?’ What specifically did I do or say that meets that definition, and why should that be grounds to dismiss what I’m saying, or to conclude I’m acting in bad faith?” is generally going to be met with, “That’s more sealioning.” If critically examining the concept of sealioining is sealioning, then I’m just inclined to dismiss the term entirely.

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  • Reverendender@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    TIL there is a term for talking to my father.

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• Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Nice idea, but not sure I’ll follow. Nowadays I just try to ignore sealions and move on.

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• atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I didn’t know it had a name. I have seen this so much on Lemmy lately.

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  • datavoid@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    No offense, but where have you seen this? I haven’t noticed anything like this

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    • Railcar8095@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Lol, good one.

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• Ledericas@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It’s a favorite of conservatives

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• Krudler@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The best defense against sealioning is to give people more credit than they want and to believe they are smarter than they let on. “Nobody could be this dumb and if they are, it’s fruitless to attempt dialogue” should always be on ones mind.

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