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In the US, is this actually the moment past the point of no return?

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Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Snapz@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

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  • RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think the real answer is that we end up kind of like the UK – going from the worlds ultra-dominant superpower to a sort of slow regression to the mean, as China, India and others take the spotlight.

    When you look at what China is doing with their Belt and Road Initiative, and their move to dominate the transportation infrastructure of developing nations – the US isn’t anywhere near equipped to counter that. We’re still in a cold war mentality thinking that we will dominate as the world’s police force.

    Meanwhile, all the actual economies will be run by Chinese companies operating with state support.

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  • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yeah pretty much. We’re 2-3 generations deep into a cultural expectation that “some one else” will deal with all these problems.

    The constant threat of this being “the most important election of our lives”, when the party making that argument campaigned as if the outcomes were irrelevant (because from their privileged perspective, the outcomes are irrelevant).

    Back during covid a boat got turned a bit sideways in a canal and it seemed like the whole world economy was going to collapse. The system we have is actually incredibly fragile and built largely on trust, both in one another but also in institutions and systems. Not only the US, but western Europe is about to get smacked up-side the head by the 2x4 of failing to maintain a civil society (US at fault within its borders, EU at fault beyond its borders).

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  • The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Progress isn’t a straight line, and sometimes there are setbacks on the way. I’m disappointed, of course, but I’m optimistic that we’ll manage.

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    • ChicoSuave@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      And progress without testing it’s resiliency against malicious actors will not last. As much as we hate Trump being elected and staffing clowns in each position, it will test what has been made so far. Row v. Wade, as we now know, should have been stronger. The Voting Rights Act too. The states that required the law to be fair have pulled back the law and reveal little has changed.

      No one likes getting burned but fire is useful for showing us what burns easily and what withstands the heat. We will rebuild stronger and know what works.

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    • tanisnikana@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      We may yet manage as a country, but the millions that die from this election won’t get to see it.

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      • LodeMike@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        millions who die

        how so?

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  • Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I was as surprised and disappointed as anyone, and I think we WILL take a few more steps backwards over the next few years, but I don’t expect an unstoppable fall into fascism.

    Most of the votes for Trump weren’t actually FOR Trump. They were against the current situation they are in. They see him as the revolution. The anti-politician that will bring real change. They think all his court battles are the “Man” trying to hold him down and keep him from disrupting a system that gave up on its people long ago.

    Of course that’s all bullshit, but, assuming that all “normal” people can see through his lies and that only evil, woman hating racists would support him, is a big part of why he was elected.

    Trump denied Project 2025 because he knew most people wouldn’t want it. (Honestly, I would be surprised if he even knew what was in it) If he lets the Christian nationalists push that whole agenda on day one, he’ll become the oppressive government that is taking away their freedoms. And nothing is more important to Trump than making Trump look good.

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    • 7fb2adfb45bafcc01c80@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’m way more concerned with Vance. Like you say, Trump does what’s best for Trump. If Vance becomes VP for whatever reason then suddenly takes center stage.

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      • Quadhammer@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Vance and Bannon

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  • SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Sure the US may be past it’s glory days. Hell even the Rand Corporation (who write a bunch of stuff for govt leaders and other high ups) says it’s been trending downhill since some point in the early 2000s.

    Essentially the paper says the last 200 years have been an anomaly and we’re slowly sliding back to historical norms. They call it the neomedieval era and it’s not just the US.

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  • Apepollo11@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    From an outsider’s perspective, I think a lot of people think you guys sailed past the point of no return back in the 80s.

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    • Zip2@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You mean the 1780s, right?

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    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      What?!

      The 80s were fucked, but if you’re saying it was worse than the response to the Civil Rights movement…

      McCarthyism…

      Jim Crow…

      Or the KKK destroying reconstruction…

      Like, I could see saying that last one was the point, only if you start the clock immediately after resolving the civil war. Cause obviously a Civil War is what really happens after a point of no return. We lasted a couple years in between the two points.

      For as fucked as the last 40 years has been, as far as America goes we’re beating the average on basic human decency.

      What’s happening now isn’t new, it’s a slip backwards, which is unfortunately common when you try to fight fascism with moderate politics. It works for a little bit because they’re coasting off the last people who really fought. But all moderate politcs really are, is giving fascist time to regroup in the shadows like fucking Sauron.

      It’s a cycle, and we live in a time when you can learn pretty much anything about history in a few minutes on Wikipedia

      America can not afford for voters to stay ignorant. We need people who know what happened last time, what worked then, and what might work again. Stop acting like we live in unprecedented times, and start reading up on how fascism has been defeated historically.

      Cuz we’re up, like it or not shits getting real again. And the more people know what we’re doing then better.

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    • Magister@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Reagan, he is the starting point of everything: the tax cut from 73% to 28%. USA never got back on track after this.

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      • I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        But Raygun did a great break dancing set in the Olympics.

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      • NABDad@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Nope. Johnson.

        No, not that one.

        Andrew Johnson.

        So many ways it could have been better.

        He could have punished the Southern Aristocracy for starting the civil war. He could have ensured that the evil that led us there was exterminated forever.

        Failing that, they could have actually removed him via impeachment instead of falling just short. That would have at least established forever that the presidency is not some sacred “unimpeachable” office.

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    • wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Remember when the entire world was convinced there was absolutely no way Bush, an idiot, could get re-elected?

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      • Today@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Nucular. 🤦

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      • kitnaht@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Nobody thought that at all. Most presidents sitting during outbreaks of war retain their positions. You’d have to have been in a complete echo chamber to believe this stance.

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  • NineMileTower@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I choose to believe that we are not. The true fight for our democracy by the working/middle class hasn’t even started yet. Some think it won’t. I choose to believe that good will again triumph and life is roller coaster of good and bad.

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    • Xeroxchasechase@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Will it start any time soon? It’s only going to get harder and harder to resist, from now on.

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      • Curiousfur@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Yeah, people really don’t understand how powerful a surveillance state can be when it focuses it’s eye on you. It’s not safe to talk about resistance around basically anything internet connected with a microphone.

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      • NineMileTower@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Let’s try this: magic-8ball.com

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    • ShepherdPie@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The true fight for our democracy by the working/middle class hasn’t even started yet.

      Seems like we’ll need to form our own political party if we want any representation because we’re certainly not getting it from either one of these two dominate parties.

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      • NineMileTower@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Count me the fuck in. I’ll grab my pitchfork.

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  • over_clox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Why do we call it united?

    Last I checked the math books, 50 is Divided.

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    • TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I always did find it amusing that they are called the United States when it seems like it’s constantly teetering on brink of another civil war.

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      • BombOmOm@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        teetering on brink of another civil war

        Shit has to get much, much, much worse before people are willing to take up arms against their own family member 'en mass. A civil war isn’t one in which you fight a far away enemy, a civil war is one in which many of your family members and friends are on the opposite side. We are nowhere near a civil war, not even close.

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      • over_clox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Heard that!

        I’m a united individual of one, can’t help where I was born…

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  • BombOmOm@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Happened 8 years ago, it wasn’t the end of America then. It won’t be the end of America now.

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    • NineMileTower@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Be prepared for the doomers to tell you why you are wrong. God speed, brother.

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      • bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Well, by now the Supreme Court has been supplanted and intent to overthrow democracy has been shown. That’s a big difference to last time. So it’s not exactly the same situation.

        But we’ll see how robust American democracy is.

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      • Slovene@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        How fast is God speed?

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  • Snapz@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Would you ever allow yourself to accept that truth if so, or will you need to see actual bodies in the streets before you believe it’s over?

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    • ShepherdPie@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This isn’t something you’ll be able to determine in the moment. It will only be clear in hindsight.

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      • Snapz@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        People do see it, it’s not easy to see it and act, but they did. I know directly of people that gave up ownership of multiple factories and a very comfortable life in Germany in about this phase of the fascist uprising there. They left to America and Australia, split family, with what they could carry, and started back over from a very modest place. Not too long after, the worst gained momentum in Germany, nazis took over the factories and a horrible fate befell many in their community who didn’t acct when they could have.

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