cross-posted from: lemmy.ca/post/26211900
[Transphobia Warning] Nutomic’s Stance on Transgender People
I just got banned from !linux@lemmy.ml for posting that screenshot
Im counting the days for a Piefed app so i can switch over and be able to forget about ml drama and weirdness
Submitted 5 months ago by xnx@slrpnk.net to fediverse@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/e65d59a4-e335-42e1-88e3-f30708116c5b.jpeg
Comments
Beaver@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
Blaze@sopuli.xyz 5 months ago
Welcome to !linux@programming.dev
cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
general rule of thumb is that if you see a .ml community there’s always a better one on another domain even if there’s not.
Beaver@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
I will be joining in :)
xnx@slrpnk.net 5 months ago
Linux doesn’t seem like the correct community for it but it could’ve been deleted it’s so weird they would ban you for that
Beaver@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
I mean to say that I posted the screenshot from the original post
UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 5 months ago
I think they’re responding to a transphobic comment and not being transphobic themselves. I think they’re addressing a far left, socially conservative conspiracy of saying “trans people r bourgeoisie inventions for culture wars to distract the public from the class war”. This person is saying that this is a far fetched idea.
I’m correct in understanding this, right?
Quill7513@slrpnk.net 5 months ago
Gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. You are not understanding right.
vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
Oh man. That’s done sick shit. He had obviously been saving up this speech, waiting for an occasion to spring it on some unsuspecting poster.
maegul@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
Still not clear on what’s so trans phobic here (having read the context, which is a private message TBC).
It seems like they’re saying that major coordinated transphobic misinformation from the bourgeoisie is unlikely given that there’s also clear pro-trans activity. Whixh is superficial IMO as such doesn’t discount multiple activities but it certainly isn’t defunct logic I’d say, where there are clearly transphobes and plenty of transphobic energy in mainstream culture at the moment.
But I don’t think they’re saying transphobia isn’t a problem. The first rule of the instance they admin is against transphobia, for example. It seems to me all they’re saying is that it isn’t a major mission by the bourgeoisie. Which compared to making corporations and capitalism happy is maybe not unfair.
UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Oof. Tankies rlly r weird, huh
Beaver@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
That’s not the situation at all.
Beaver@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
Just like when hexbear.net called them out on different terrible takes (ie what counts as csam and other awful mods)
lvxferre@mander.xyz 5 months ago
I know that I shouldn’t, but…
Off-topic: why Nutomic's comment is idiotic
It’s a big false dichotomy. As a class, the bourgeoisie only cares about staying in power. Everything else from its PoV is fluff, to be situationally used or opposed. And that applies to the trans cause. The bourgeoisie is weakly opposed to trans rights because they get in the way of reproductive labour (trans people are less likely to have children, so they aren’t pumping out as many new proletariats as cis people do). However that opposition is not strong enough to make the bourgeoisie ignore pink money, since pink money is still money and money is still power under capitalism. It’s also worth noting that the bourgeoisie doesn’t just compete for power with the other two classes (proletariat and petit-bourgeoisie) - it also competes internally. And for that, different factions within the class will seek external support from different groups, and align their discourses to those. In that situation, what do you expect to see? The bourgeoisie flinging back and forth between lip service towards LGBTQ+ people+communities, and a transphobic discourse. Rainbow-wash something today (it’s a cheap and effective marketing tactic!), go transphobic tomorrow; business A plops up a trans flag, business B tears it down. Flush, repeat. And, well, it’s exactly what you see here. I also encourage specifically Trotskyists to read this text, as it explains way better than I could how the transgender agenda and class struggle are not orthogonal in nature. (Stalinists: be warned that Sybil Davis rambles quite a bit against Stalinism.) And… on a moral level, let’s be frank - you need to be inconsistent like a puddle of jelly, to be a communist but not defend trans rights. At the end of the day, what a good communist should defend is freedom of oppression; and what are those LGBTQ+ activists saying, if not “we don’t want to be oppressed based on gender, sex and sexuality”? It’s all about human rights dammit.
On-topic: I think that the “forums side of the Fediverse” (nowadays mostly Lemmy and Kbin/Mbin) would benefit immensely from additional platforms; that’s why I’m excited for projects like PieFed and SubLinks. I am grateful for the Lemmy software but I can’t help but see the people in charge of the project as a liability.And they would still be a liability even if they had any skill building a healthy community (they don’t, they suck at it). Relying on a single platform is like putting all your eggs within the same basket, once that basket goes down everything breaks.
viking@infosec.pub 5 months ago
Without context, that comment sounds ok to me?
jeffw@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Maybe you need the context of all the transphobic shit that’s happened lately, like the Olympics boxing stuff? Idk, it still seems transphobic. No clue who this guy is though
Quill7513@slrpnk.net 5 months ago
Lead Lemmy dev
Quill7513@slrpnk.net 5 months ago
Okay. I’ll remember you’re a transphobe for later.
You know trans people as oppressed people are allies against our oppressors, right? Not granting them personhood benefits the bourgeoisie
j4k3@lemmy.world 5 months ago
You’re not contextualizing reasonably here. The bourgeoisie in his context meaning, the capitalist class. It is just a comment about how it has tilted to fashionable to support LGBT. That is a reasonable statement. Participation in events is a controversial subject for many. Personally I believe gendered sports should be entirely eliminated in favor of singular combined competition of humans.
Many might not see the two party system of the USA as what it presents itself as internally. It is not hard to say, this is a one party system that wears two masks and be entirely uninterested in which clown color mask faces forward at the moment.
I see indifference. I see neutrality. I don’t see two sides of a conversation with transparency that qualifies the accusation friend. Feel free to post with transparency though.
Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 5 months ago
The context is they’re positively stating the “men in women’s sports” part of that exchange.
Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 5 months ago
The context is they’re positively stating the “men in women’s sports” part of that exchange.
otl@hachyderm.io 5 months ago
@xnx PieFed won’t have an app any time soon due to the way it’s implemented. It’s still awesome without a native app because it’s fast and doesn’t really need direct access to hardware to do its thing.
Tech detail: PieFed is a Python app using Flask and server-side rendered HTML templates. It is super fast as there’s no heavy Javascript framework being used. The maintainer has written about how PieFed is developed with poor internet connections in mind: https://piefed.social/post/6102
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
The only thing piefed needs for an app is a flask rest framework. It’d not hard
threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
PieFed won’t have an app any time soon due to the way it’s implemented.
Why is that? They seem pretty similar on the Surface, so I’m curious differences exist under the hood which would preclude app development.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 5 months ago
There isn't anything stopping this. It's just that no one is working on an app. And there isn't any API implemented (yet) for an app to hook in to and fetch posts and comments. Both could be programmed. Someone could also copy the Lemmy API and use arbitrary Lemmy apps with Piefed. I think the developer is open to any of that and I'm pretty sure I read some feature request. It's just that the focus currently is on other things. And Piefed works well as an progressive web app. You can open it in your browser and click "Add to home screen" and you'll get an icon and a browser window that pretty much feels like an app. I'm using that and also don't see any benefit in putting in the effort to maintain an app, when it works well as is.
Fizz@lemmy.nz 5 months ago
The developer is expressing their opinion on their instance using their software. The beauty of federation and the software he has crrated is that you can build a community that you want.you never have to interact with or his instance.
This post is drama for the sake of drama.
xnx@slrpnk.net 5 months ago
He receives thousands of dollars in donations to make the software. I’d rathe people start supporting software developers made by non bigots
Fizz@lemmy.nz 5 months ago
It’s a weird place to draw the line. You probably use all kinds of products with scumbag companies and owners yet you draw the line at a guy’s Foss project which has nothing to do with his views and the project barely makes min wage yet serves tens of thousands of people.
You don’t need to withdraw your support because you already do nothing to support. Again I think you are creating drama for the sake of drama. The guy is an open Communist and you are shocked that he’s transphobic.
maegul@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
So, for context
- this is one of admins of lemmy . ml.
- that instance’s first rule is
No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
- This person is also one of the core devs of lemmy
Because, IMO, fedi drama is almost always overstated and overblown, especially when it comes to specific “incidents” … because we’ve gotten addicted to social media drama/rage …
I’ll provide my own impression without any context, pretending I’m a relevant moderator
- it seems they’re challenging the notion that the same culture can be both pro-trans and anti-trans at the same time.
- which seems superficial unless it’s about a specific incident
- they seem to think that the Olympic boxer that’s caused an incident is actually born biologically male but is a trans female, and cite as much as proof that the west is not wholly anti-trans
- my own impression is that the boxer being biologically male is mostly rumour and accusation, but I’m not close to the story at all and can understand how someone not following the olympics would conclude that they’re trans
- without context I’m not sure I could conclude whether this is transphobic, at all actually.
- Probably misinformed, but I’m also not informed on that issue, which also seems to be a moving “story”.
- so given that it’s a sensitive topic, I’d follow up the comment with an attempt to frame the sensitivity of the issue and ask the author to consider editing their comment just to flag the potentially transphobic reading of the comment.
Here’s the killer though … this seems like it’s a private message in response to a query … in which case I’m not sure there’s any moderation to be done and without more I’m not convinced this transphobic at all.
MxRemy@lemmy.one 5 months ago
Woww wtf!!
Varyk@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Bourgeoisie means the middle class, it’s frustrating that term has become incorrectly popularized as “those in power”.
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
Not quite. Bourgeois were the merchant class which was the middle one during feudal times. Now how everyone they have become the ruling class and the term has started changing in meaning, but the old use still Is valid
Varyk@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
I’ve heard the argument, but we already have accurate terms for capitalists.
I’m not saying people are going to stop doing it, I just find personally find it silly to deliberately misdefine a term out of convenience.
It’s like calling a truck a bicycle because someone who didn’t know what a truck was called one a bicycle once and it caught on through a meme.
Achyu@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
The bourgeoisie would only care about profits and maintaining their power, right? They’d be both pro-lgbtqia+ and anti-lgbtqia+ if it gets them profit and/or pushes attention away from their misuse of power.
Like selling Che Geuvara T-shirts, while running propaganda against him.Or are they seeing transphobia as mainly a reaction of religion/conservativeness? Even then a part of the bourgeoisie would try to profit off them, right?
Or did they respond as such because they saw the bait bourgeoisie remark(there are screenshots of the convo in the comments there)?
Would be nice to see their response.
maegul@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
Yea I think this is the context of their comment. Compared to buttressing capitalism, being pro or against trans people is neither here nor there as far as major coordinated missions from the bourgeoisie (or mainstream or whatever).
That they seem to think the boxer in question was biological make is likely off/inaccurate AFAICT, but that’s a moving story and not following it closely is no major issue I’d say.
Some insensitive or inappropriate language is going on here maybe. But I wouldn’t know and would want to defer to trans people to guide any understanding.
s08nlql9@lemm.ee 5 months ago
I thought you mistyped PixelFed lol. Good to see there’s another Lemmy clone like sublinks.
cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
that post is a classic demonstration of the horseshoe theory.
onlinepersona@programming.dev 5 months ago
So many things I’d have to look up to understand what’s going on and why this is supposedly transphobic.
What bothers me more is private discussions being aired publicly.
colforge@lemmy.world 5 months ago
“Aww we can’t say hateful things in DMs without worrying about it still getting out.” 😭😭😭😭
saltesc@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Next time someone asks me what Lemmy’s like, I’ll just refer them to this post.
“And see? That’s my comment down here with the gif.”
maegul@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
Honestly seems dumb to me. The vast majority of lemmy is not like this at all. It all depends on what you subscribe to.
That there’s always some background radiation of Fedi drama … yea I’d agree with you on that … sad to see TBH. IMO, some just want to create drama and get tribal without actually doing anything positive.
saltesc@lemmy.world 5 months ago
A rant on social issues, a spin on development, and a nonchalant passive-aggressieness… Nah, that’s a lot of Lemmy. If the profile pic was a fursona, that’d be 💋👌
tyjjtftjtfjrht@fedia.io 5 months ago
So?
spiderman@ani.social 5 months ago
what if they turned out to be like this or hate other set of people. lemmy by design is defederated so even if the devs are like this, you can just simply call out them or leave their lemmy server lol. i am sure there are trans friendly lemmy servers out here.
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
The only thing that surprises me is that anyone is surprised.
I don’t intend that to be snarky, more jokey. But, yeah, it’s pretty much common knowledge. Not the first time they’ve expressed unpleasant opinions on the subject, though not quite this bluntly. There was a minor kerfluffle over it not too long after the reddit exodus.
And it isn’t unexpected tbh, that’s a pretty bog standard tankie take, if perhaps a tad more trope filled.
To me, lemmy is kinda like a less important version of the Apollo missions. You put up with someone unpleasant because they can get the job done, until things get to the point it can be done without them. German scientists, tankie devs. Yeah, yeah, von Braun wasn’t a “real” nazi; whatever.
At some point, either lemmy gets enough movement to get a less extreme team on board, it gets forked, or something else comes along.
Quill7513@slrpnk.net 5 months ago
I’ll keep posting about Sublinks as long as Lemmy is primarily developed by people whom suck
threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
How is Sublinks development going? Are they getting close to Lemmy as far as features go? Any stable instances yet?
maegul@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
Genuinely curious … what exactly is the problematic stance here?
Is it that they think the boxer was a biological male and therefore trans female? Or is it referring to then as a biological male (which seems justifiably politically incorrect to me but not heinous in trying to point out that the Olympic/bougousie can’t be that transphobic, could honestly be a language problem).
Or is it the statement that the bourgeoisie aren’t trans phobic?
Sekoia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
“The transgender topic” is already weird as a statement (kinda like “the gay agenda”, it comes off as only considering it as a political statement?), and “clearly promoted by the bourgeoisie” implies it’s bad.
“Gas far as […] lgbt flags on government buildings”: it’s… not far at all? Again, weird statement.
“Biological male” is both wrong for the boxer (she’s cis) and generally used for transphobia (trans women on HRT aren’t biological males by any reasonable definition). It’s also generally conspiratorial.
Overall it’s not explicitly transphobic or bad, but it shows at minimum a very misinformed perspective.