See that’s where I disagree. They’re both awful, traumatic events. At least with murder you’re dead and don’t have to spend the rest of your life haunted by the experience.
Comment on How does employing a rapist not constitute an unsafe work environment for female employees?
Crackhappy@lemmy.world 8 months agoI respectfully disagree. Murder is not at the same level as rape. Rape is awful and despicable, but at least you’re alive to recover from it.
mwproductions@lemmy.world 8 months ago
kava@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I think this attitude where some traumatic event ruins people for life is toxic. Trauma is part of life. People can move on and have fulfilling lives.
ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 8 months ago
“Trauma is part of life”? Murder and dieing is also part of life. Sorry, but that just doesn’t make sense. Trauma in a clinical sense is certainly not “part of life”.
pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.world 8 months ago
They’re rape apologists. Everything they’ve been doing is part of a framework of Motte and Baileys they have constructed to justify and defend rape, and rapists.
Notice they’re talking about the nature of trauma in life when this is actually a thread about OP dealing with a known sexual predator at work? How they have been talking about redemption, punishment, and the death penalty when NONE of those things are eve tangentially related to OP? That is purposeful and intentional.
They derail threads like this, where there are clear-cut cases to hold someone off, because they oppose accountability on a moral level.
They do it because they’re rape apologists.
pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.world 8 months ago
And so therefore a rape victim should just put up with rape and move on. They’re still alive so it doesn’t matter, and their rapist should be able to live with no consequences.
By your twisted logic, you can justify doing anything to anyone as long as you don’t kill them. Rape does affect everyone for life, especially the ones who have claimed they moved on from it.
What makes you think someone won’t turn around and use your own reasoning to justify doing something to you?
HawlSera@lemm.ee 8 months ago
I can’t send a corpse to therapy for any amount of time that’s long enough for them to recover from being dead, I can say differently about being traumatized…
And honestly as someone who’s used therapy to recover from trauma, I find the idea that “It would unquestionably be better if you were murdered instead” to be so absurdly offensive and dismissive, as if anything of value to me and my continued existence is suddenly moot because I’ve become “Damaged Goods”
Seeing Murder as preferable to Rape is a highly misogynistic way of thinking that draws too much from patriarchal standards about a woman’s worth.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 months ago
Murder, for the victim, by definition, is not a traumatic event.
aidan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Death is always an option, revival generally isn’t.
ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 8 months ago
There is no reason why rape is judged much less severely than torture though.
pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 8 months ago
What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
You are advocating a known sexual predator be allowed in the workplace, knowing other employees are threatened by his presence.
The company isn’t responsible for ensuring the rapist – who is not supposed to be in society in the first place – is able to put food on the table. It is the company’s responsibility to protect its workers in th workplace, and that means not letting a known rapist work around women.
Honestly, those women could probably go complain to the EEOC. They certainly could win a civil suit.
What you’re asking for is horrific and a blatant violation of the rights of other people. We don’t live under the barbaric practices of the 20th century where anything like this can just be done to you and you have to put up with. We live in the 21st century where we recognize the rights of victims and communities are more important.
Don’t like it? Do what you’re telling rape victims to do: get over it and move on.
aidan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Women aren’t the only victims of rape. Clearly he shouldn’t be allowed to work around anyone right? Actually he shouldn’t be allowed to live near anyone who could be at risk either. Actually he shouldn’t be allowed to go near anyone who could be raped. I think the Soviets already tried a prisoner only island and it didn’t work too well.
pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 8 months ago
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It’s not the company’s responsibility to employ him.
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There are plenty of jobs he can get where he doesn’t interact with anyone.
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OP and the other workers have a serious, legitimate, valid fear of this asshole and their rights are fundamentally more important than his, because it’s their safety and security on the line, not his or by extension yours. He is not you
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You’re being overly emotional and melodramatic, and it’s obvious you’re doing it on purpose because you know what you’re asking for is horrific.
No one owes that clown a living and if you don’t like it, it’s too fucking bad. He should have thought about that before being a dirty rapist, just as you should have thought before you opened your stupid fucking mouth.
The people at that job do NOT have to suffer his presence to appease you. They do NOT have to endanger themselves by being around a fucking rapist!
Don’t you care about their rights at all? Their rights are being violated by virtue of him being there, doesn’t that matter to you at all? Would you want your cousin or your sister or your mother or your wife to work in a situation like that? Or are you gonna insult my intelligence by lying to my face saying they or you do already, so surely rape apologia is good for us peasants too?
aidan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
It’s not the company’s responsibility to employ him.
I never said they did.
There are plenty of jobs he can get where he doesn’t interact with anyone.
Like?
OP and the other workers have a serious, legitimate, valid fear of this asshole and their rights are fundamentally more important than his, because it’s their safety and security on the line, not his
A lot of fears are valid, but that doesn’t necessarily justify acting on them.
their rights are fundamentally more important than his
That was true during his prison sentence. Now as much as he disgusts us, he has served his punishment and has his rights again.
or by extension yours. He is not you The people at that job do NOT have to suffer his presence to appease you.
What does this have to do with me?
They do NOT have to endanger themselves by being around a fucking rapist!
They can quit, they can force the employer to fire him, or they can tolerate it. Fundamentally, there is nothing he can change now to make himself more tolerable to his coworkers, and its not his employers job to punish him again.
Their rights are being violated by virtue of him being there
How?
Would you want your cousin or your sister or your mother or your wife to work in a situation like that?
Why is this the argument? Why can’t I have the option empathize with someone myself- why does it have to be a surrogate? But my mom was hospitalized 2 years ago after assault by a student who she still works with. Of course its terrifying know that could happen, but that’s why safety measures are put into place at her work place.
rape apologia is good for us peasants too?
Where did I apologize for rape? All I implied was that under the law he had served his time. He is now allowed to exist in society. If you believe in mandatory minimum of a life sentence for rape, that is a debate that can be had. But just like murderers, kidnappers, torturers, terrorists, and other horrific criminals, rapists are sometimes given a chance at freedom again. But you should separate wanting to protect people, and wanting revenge. Wanting revenge is a motive for criminal justice, but don’t try to hide it with an argument about protection and rights.
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Maggoty@lemmy.world 8 months ago
That’s the thing, many people never recover from rape.
L1to@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I think more people don’t recover from death compared to rape
Maggoty@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I’m not arguing that lol. But many people would literally rather be killed than raped and it’s frequently cited as one of the things, “worse than death”.
It should absolutely be punished similarly.
HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
That sounds like a great way to make all rapists murderers.
aidan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Many is not anywhere near all.
That is an option for the victim in a rape still, there is no option for the victim in a murder.
beefcat@lemmy.world 8 months ago
But it is possible to recover, and many do. There is no recovery from being murdered.
Murder also has further externalities. When you kill someone, you take them away from their friends and families, who now have to live forever without that person in their lives.
But this whole conversation feels a lot like we’re asking “who was worse, Hitler or Genghis Khan?”, and it’s weird to put either side on the defensive even if there is an objectively true answer to be found.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Yes, but statistically speaking the amount of people who recover from murder (being around 0 to 1, depending on if the Resurrection of Christ is a factual event or mere myth) is a tad lower than people who recover from rape induced trauma…