FaceDeer@kbin.social 6 months ago
Yeah, close that protocol! Build the walls around our garden higher! No need to wait for them to actually do something worth defederating over, we just don't like them!
This is silly. A major social media network is trying to join the Fediverse and everyone's keen on stopping it. If Meta does something dirty or damaging, sure, defederate them then. But I was kind of hoping that open protocols would flourish, not just end up as another bunch of balkanized forums and Reddit-likes.
Ever play Plague Inc? The secret to winning is to not become deadly until you’ve already become engrained and established throughout society. Then you add the deadly features once you’re too deep in.
Don’t let the cancer establish itself as something innocent. The owner of the platform WILL take any opportunity to seize control of the media so it can seize control of the message.
I just love this comparison 🥰
Pandemic Legacy is a great game.
I'm sure Meta won't be awful this time! Sure they've been awful quite literally every single chance they've gotten, but they won't be this time!
I'm not saying they won't. I'm saying there's no reason to defederate preemptively.
I honestly don't understand how some of you have this point of view. This isn't a they've been evil once or twice thing. This is a they've been evil at every single opportunity and actively seek out more opportunities to be evil for well over a decade and you're a fucking moron for trusting them thing.
That’s the only way to do it with minimal damage.
Defederating after this happens will cause a giant strain on the Fediverse and will simply accelerate the problems for which we don’t want Meta here in the first place.
For some reason I can't dowvote this, so: this is a fucking stupid take
Damn. Better block it now because we literally can never go back to reassess.
Fuck I wish we had more time to decide!
I don’t know how many times Meta has to literally be worse than a movie villain for people to stop having stockholm syndrome
“yes, they kill, torture, brutalize, pillage, and kick puppies, but if we don’t allow them an equal voice, can we truly say we are any better?”
Yes. Yes we can.
Federation means you can defederate for any reason. It’s not a set of principles, it is an ontological arrangement whereby power is distributed. Plenty of users will look for defederated instances to join because keeping facebook out of our shit is what we want. You are free to find instances that are federated. Nobody will stop you.
And as for things they’ve done, personally I find that knowingly stoking genocide in Myanmar is enough for me to not give them any more chances.
How many times does Meta have to show you who they are before you start paying attention?
I'd be closer to agreeing with you if XMPP didn't completely invalidate your point. They did it there and they'll do it here.
XMPP works great, you just have to use it. It doesn't invalidate anything.
Theres a reason nobody uses it anymore. Google extended the crap out of it, effectively took over the protocol and then retired it. It bears the same echoes of what's happening here.
This didn't happen. In fact Google was the one who fell behind development when the protocol moved on and deprecated unencrypted connections for example. People just don't make it a priority to use XMPP instead of the walled gardens they are using now.
If you like meta so much, why are you here?
I don't like Meta. Why do you assume everyone has to be on one "team" or the other? I'm in favor of open protocols and open protocols can be used by anyone. Even if you don't like them.
Every open protocol that survives past the first couple of days of actual use, no exceptions, has some mechanism whereby bad actors can be removed.
Don’t use “open protocol” as your excuse for sucking Zuck the Fuck off.
As I just said, I don't like Meta. And keep your homophobic slurs out of civil discussion.
But they are not yet a bad actor on the Fediverse because they haven't actually joined the Fediverse yet. If you're so convinced that they're going to do something awful, why the big deal about defederating preemptively?
Embrace, extend, extinguish.
You are either innocently unaware of how it works or just dissassociating from reality. Meta has to compete with Fediverse if it can’t directly harvest user activity for marketing and advertising systems. They quite obviously will (have to?) do everything they can to influence technical decisions that allow them to steer the protocols in a way that is profitable rather than for the good of the end users and communities.
They ultimately will seek to build walls around their development and services on their terms and leave others not part of their profitable ecology of development outside of those walls. They are a publicly traded corporation, this is just a normal evolution in for-profit corps, even if current employees do act as positive curators of community engagement.
The protocol only needed an open license that forbade profiting off user data.
That's a pretty big restriction for an "open" protocol.
This IS Facebook. It’s guaranteed. They’re evil. Block them now.
Defederation is part of the protocol.
At least make your rhetoric somewhat resemble reality? Please?
They’re confused and likely think that federation means no rules and unconditional access to any server from your account, when it couldn’t be further from the truth. I’ve said it elsewhere but people craving that don’t want the fediverse, they want Nostr.
This place is the way it is, why it’s enjoyable to be on, because we can and do defederate servers run by bots, trolls, or any other malicious actors, otherwise they run wild.
Yes, and I've got nothing against defederation. Once there's actually a reason to defederate.
Nearly 20 years of Facebook abuse is apparently not a reason.
Holy fucking shit is the attention span of humanity getting short.
The microbloggers are a bit different than us, in that they actually try to create a "social circle." Threaded discussions with random assholes like we enjoy tend to be more focused on giving us someone to reply to.
Zorque@kbin.social 6 months ago
If you haven't noticed them doing dirty or damaging things for the last twenty years, feel free to engage with them.
There's more than enough evidence to show their intentions are far from pure.
BaroqueInMind@kbin.social 6 months ago
How am I supposed to do that when people like you are encouraging admins to defederate which removes any semblance of freedom of choice that you are fucking trying to imply we act upon?
Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
They’re a multinational corporation, they don’t need us to host their shit for you to be able to read a goddamn article and learn something.
If you don’t yet understand that they’re evil that’s on you.
BaroqueInMind@kbin.social 6 months ago
What if I don't care if they're evil?
squiblet@kbin.social 6 months ago
I’m sure there will be instances that remain federated with them, and you can join those… or just join Threadstagram.
PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 6 months ago
This is what I’m thinking. I don’t understand why people fled from the corporate internet only to be excited to go back to them.
sour@kbin.social 6 months ago
move to other instance
BaroqueInMind@kbin.social 6 months ago
Or build my own, which is great to have as a contingency.
Sanyanov@lemmy.world 6 months ago
When you fuck over people with their freedoms, you don’t deserve the freedom to be extended to you.
It’s the same as paradox of tolerance. You shouldn’t be tolerant to intolerance, and you shouldn’t give freedom to those who want to strip it away from you.
That’s like freedom 101.
Zorque@kbin.social 6 months ago
So... admins aren't free to choose? Why are you trying to take away admins freedom of choice? Sounds kind of authoritarian to me.
Chozo@kbin.social 6 months ago
If you're self-hosting a personal instance, do whatever you want.
But if you're hosting a community for other people, you should consider what they want. That's the responsibility of a leader.
ttmrichter@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Sign up on Threads if you want Threads content. Fucking duh.
theneverfox@pawb.social 6 months ago
You can spin up your own server… That’s what the fediverse is.
The freedom to do whatever you want as an admin, and the freedom of choosing another server where you’ll still be part of the network
Meta/Facebook threatens this, because their user base dwarfs the rest of the fediverse. They’re also running their own closed source server code… They can gatekeep their own federation
I would love it if companies joined the fediverse, but like, by making instances. Maybe even use it for their internal Intranet. Maybe they could add federation compatible APIs to their existing software
I don’t want a massive social network company to use their position to make a new social network…
Federation is like Bitcoin or Tor - it’s decentralized, until one org becomes too large… At that point, they can control the network in countless ways