Draconic_NEO

@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world

This is a remote user, information on this page may be incomplete. View at Source ↗

⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:

Instagram and threads (and parts of the clusterfuck that is facebook) are written in python and seem to have scaled fine.

How much of them? Parts being made in python isn’t the same as your whole backend being written in 90% or nothing but python. But I guess we’ll see.

If a new python release breaks compatibility, Piefed can keep using the old version of python.

Technically yes, though I wonder how long that would last if the next jump is anything like the last. I can already imagine the people bitching about “SeCUriTy” just like many were when people talked about maintaining backwards compatibility or keeping python2 support in the days of the transition to python3.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
I mean, maybe? I don’t know, I don’t live in that mirror universe where python supplanted JS. Though considering how hard the push was to abandon and burn down python2, I have a feeling even if it was a web scripting language the same push would’ve happened and it would’ve just broken a lot more stuff since you know “sECuRiTY”.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
That’s nice that he did it but the fact that he gives the option to turn it off without forking isn’t good, the reason why Lemmy’s modlog is so great is because it isn’t optional, and while you could modify your own Lemmy instance to hide and disable it, you’d need to break mod action federation to completely remove it. By not being optional it is more resilient. Piefed though makes it easy for corrupt or non-accountable admins to turn it off and hide who did what and when. Just like it is on Reddit.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

As much as public modlogs are required, the lack of accountability of some mods repeatedly reported for power tripping makes me question sometimes if all of this is not in vain.

Maybe it seems that way since mods don’t always or often yield to pressure on YPTB, but if there wasn’t a modlog or if they could hide it and not announce actions publicly. We wouldn’t even know. People would still complain about their bans but there would be no public evidence. No one could make a critical assessment based on the public evidence it would be the banned person’s word against the mods. That’s what a life without the modlog is, that’s what it is on Reddit. I do not believe that real people want to go back to that. Server admins and mods maybe but not people.

On the other hand, there are several features that Lemmy always ignored, and that exist on Piefed

I believe the second, third, and possibly the fourth one are coming in later Lemmy versions.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:
That’s not what it says in the building healthy communities section. It said that upvotes in “low quality communities” aren’t counted but downvotes are.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:
I don’t really agree that it’s an attempt to centralize the fediverse but I do think that the push and praise for it feels extremely unnatural, especially how people are bragging about liking and wanting the reputational features of it, and being able to hide the modlog. Like dude those are the biggest reasons people left Reddit, and now suddenly “people” are just going gaga for those same anti-features. That seems more than fishy to me…
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

I think votes in general should not be private, because this is like a public plaza what you say is public, and attaching a reputation because of down votes is dangerously bullying and a slippery slope, so piefed doesn’t actually feel like my pie at the moment.

I agree with this, both of these things are bad on their own but together they are extremely bad. Like it encourages the same groupthink as there is on Reddit while also allowing easy vote manipulation to help yourself and hurt others. Really bad combination.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:
Don’t forget that admins can literally turn the modlog off on their instance to hide mod actions from others and who did them. How can anyone think that accountability limiting features is a good thing, especially coming from Reddit.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:
Yeah this is like the worst feature of Reddit taken to the extreme by the ability to filter out upvotes from communities, but still allowing downvotes from those communities to hurt your score. I can’t support a platform like that.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:
I agree, canceling a software over that is just purely reactionary, an opensource software no less.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:
I mean it’s my first account, and also the only one I use on Lemmy.world communities.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:
Oh thanks, I think that’s the first time someone’s said it to me on Lemmy. Which is weird since I’ve had multiple others before. This account is two years old, and I have other accounts too.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:
Yes I don’t think that demolishing whole ecosystems is a good thing. I think that it’s a shitty mentality of wanting shiny and new shit and fixing what isn’t broken. I am a believer in legacy support and I find it weird and concerning to see and hear people complain about it. You do realize that if Python had been the Web’s scripting engine instead of JS, a lot of Websites would’ve been, and still would be trashed and unusable due to said breaking changes with zero regard for legacy support. Thankfully that wasn’t the case, but it does go to show that legacy support and backwards compatibility is important.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:
Are you denying the problem of Backwards compatibility with python versions? It was and still is a big problem today. I’m still seeing the affects of that though many communities. I don’t really think it’s only good for tinkering but I know its developers clearly do, otherwise they wouldn’t have subjected us to the transition from python 2.7 to python 3 and people wouldn’t have been so eager to comply with them dropping python 2.7 support before you could say bitrot.

Yeah somehow that doesn’t give me much confidence for the future.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:

Admins can turn it on/off, I’ve turned it on for my instance. quokk.au/modlog

That’s still not really much better. It should be on by default, the whole reason there’s a modlog is for liability. Hiding the modlog isn’t doing anyone any favors, don’t try to tell me that there’s merit to that. Obfuscation of mod actions is hiding them from accountability.

So what you’re saying is that they have a Social Credit Karma system like Reddit does? I already hate it.

Not that I’m aware of, members can see what percentage others vote (i.e. do you vote 100% downvotes?) but that’s about it. Mods and admins can see a reputation metric, but that’s not forward facing to the public and simply a way for bad faith actors to be flagged.

Piefed puts weight on votes, the software punishes for being downvoted a lot. Therefore this is in a sense a social credit system. And it’s made worse by the fact that you can exclude upvotes from counting but downvotes still count in there, so you can make it very difficult to earn ~~social credit~~ reputation but easy to lose it. That’s not acceptable to me, that’s worse than the environment on Reddit. This isn’t a good thing.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨lemmy.blahaj.zone has setup a piefed instance.⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Yeah I’m not going to move to that either, also private votes seems like it’ll be a nightmare. Good luck combating all but the most obvious vote manipulation.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨lemmy.blahaj.zone has setup a piefed instance.⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Dude there’s a built in social credit system that aims to embarrass or discredit people for having been downvoted too much, that’s very different than an admin building their own tools to create that kind of echo chamber, they hand these tools out to everyone on a silver platter. They’re on by default, literally every piefed server started with the default settings will have these. It’s very different than specific admins choosing to create a platform like that with integrations. This type of social credit system is built right in.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
It is reactionary to want to cancel an open source project or codebase based on grievances with a particular person or their opinions.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Some people for some reason want to cancel or boycott lemmy as a software because they think it’ll hurt the Devs, which is stupid because this is open source software. Not only do the Devs get nothing from people using it without donating but they can’t stop people from using it either, and since it’s opensource, they can’t stop people from modding/forking it either. This whole movement to cancel Lemmy is just reactionary garbage.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
- Image-heavy communities can have a tiled/masonry view, like piefed.social/c/pics@lemmy.world
So what you’re saying is that they have a ~~Social Credit~~ Karma system like Reddit does? I already hate it.
- Upvotes in meme communities do not add to reputation.
Oh a really strict social credit system. Yeah fuck piefed for sure. It’s already bad enough that people maliciously downvote comments on lemmy with alts, giving power to their votes will just make that shit worse.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
I agree, this whole idea of canceling Lemmy is weird and just feels reactionary. Also Piefed running on Python doesn’t seem like something that can scale well nor something that can be perpetually worked on for the long haul without running into issues with new python releases and compatibility with them.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Just started a community for those who wish to move away from Lemmy⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
I’ve always thought it was really weird and really dumb sentiment to want to cancel Lemmy, as an Open source software. It’s like people think they need to endorse the developers’ views to use Lemmy, or pay them money to use the software. But like that’s really dumb. Lemmy is free and opensource software, the developers have no say in who uses it, it’s also opensource meaning anyone can fork it. So this position just seems weird and reactionary.

One thing that really makes me reluctant about the future of piefed is the fact that it runs on Python. Great for tinkering but it likely won’t scale well, and Python is famous for breaking backwards compatibility. So expect this project to be hosed when Python 4 or 5 comes out and breaks compatibility or syntax with the previous version. I saw this happen with Kodi and other platforms with Python Based plugins, and it’ll most definitely happen again, not to say it can’t happen with something like Rust or Go, but these compiled languages are designed for big projects, python is just one-off scripts, so the ones maintaining languages like Rust, Go, C++ work a bit harder to keep them as functionally compatible as possible so big projects aren’t crippled and trashed by an update.

Anyway that’s my opinion on this whole thing, I don’t believe Piefed is the future, and I do not think Instance Admins should jump at the chance to abandon Lemmy. Maybe for sublinks if it ever comes out, but not for piefed.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Slrpnk.net outage⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Oh awesome, I mean I’ve heard of other platforms like sublinks offering database migration but I didn’t think it would be feasible with piefed since unlike sublinks it’s very different than lemmy.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Slrpnk.net outage⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Yeah me too, I’d wanted to for a while but never got around to it. Now I probably never will (unless they get the servers back up at some point in the future).
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Slrpnk.net outage⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Wouldn’t that mean the instance would completely restart? I mean I don’t know much about piefed but logically it seems like the DB structure would be incompatible.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Slrpnk.net outage⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
They have stepped in when a lot of people complained, it took their whole instance complaining to do so while a Nazi troll spammed hate across the local feed.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨lemm.ee is shutting down at the end of this month⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Yeah I agree, that model just isn’t sustainable. Moderation is one of the most challenging aspects of running a Lemmy instance, and deciding to never defederate because of “free speech” and “user choice” just makes the job that much worse. It feels almost inevitable that instances like this will ultimately succumb to this type of burnout.

Really I feel like we should stop talking about “defederation” as an abstract concept without context or reason since it makes it seem like defederation happens for no reason. Which is almost never the case. We don’t talk about other forms of moderation that way, and if someone did it would be clear they’re one of those free speech trolls, so why do we so casually talk about defederation this way? Seriously, defederation, like any other moderation is 100% necessary, because humans are evil pieces of shit. Not all of them, but many are. That’s why we ban people, that’s why we defederate the most rotten places in the fediverse. Saying “just block users” is counterproductive. You know what Lemmy would look like if that’s all we offered here? Probably a more extreme version of 4chan, since those are the people that dominate when moderation isn’t enforced.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨lemm.ee is shutting down at the end of this month⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
I don’t think the people here whining about moderation, defederation, and “Freeze Peach” care about any morality than their perceived right to say whatever they want without consequence.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨lemm.ee is shutting down at the end of this month⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Yeah moderation is the biggest challenge on Lemmy servers, they ended up making it more challenging for themselves with the decision to never defederate from any instance and lean all the way into the hysteria surrounding defederation. That’s really not a sustainable model for the long term, it increases workload, and drives off portions of the userbase who are sensitive to extreme or aggressive people (the people who run wild if you never defederate troll instances or ban trolls).
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨lemm.ee is shutting down at the end of this month⁩ ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
This is sad, but also not unexpected. I’d noticed a lack of engagement from their admin team for a while, and very often they wouldn’t respond to reports. Still sad to see them go, and also slightly worrying since there are a lot of active communities on there and many many users.