Comment on Reactionaries have you used the same talking points to shun progress throughout history.
KISSmyOS@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Pacifism is always an unpopular stance, because always, always, always, THIS war is different! THIS war is justified!
Not really comparable. If in 2003 the US did nothing Iraq would still be doing what it was doing and there would have been no war. If Ukraine stops fighting for even a day the country no longer exists.
It isnt special pleading when you can point out major differences between cases.
Kraut IMO made a pretty good argument based on exactly that point that Iraq would have been doing what it had been doing already,
That being that what Iraq was doing was plenty horrible on its own, and that Bush and co could have made an argument for US involvement just on the merits of stopping a genocidal dictator. The question with no answer is if the public would have accepted that argument for going into Iraq at the same time as Afghanistan.
The war was illegal and justified by WMDs that weren’t there.
But we must also look at pacifism as a convenient shield at times. There were “pacifists” in the Second World War who clearly weren’t ideologically opposed to war but were opposed to fighting hitler. I see letting putin continue as utterly chamberlainian.
Ok that’s not really fair. Declassified docs have revealed that Chamberlain knew damn well what was going to work and intentionally played down causus belli because he was buying Britain time to rearm, the problem was that time is a resource you buy for both sides, and the axis used theirs a lot better.
Yup. Support for the Iraqi war was at like 80% in the US when it started.
PeleSpirit@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Apepollo11@lemmy.world 11 months ago
With all due respect, you’re literally replying to a post saying it’ll always be “This war is different, this war is justified” by emphasising how this war is different and this war is justified.
admiralteal@kbin.social 11 months ago
But that's not what is happening.
What is happening is directly pointing out that this was is NOT different. That this war is ALSO unjustified.
In war, the aggressors are the problem. Period. And lending support to the aggressed is not the same as supporting war.
It would work, simply letting Russia finish a genocide against Ukraine or Israel finish a genocide against Palestine. The conflict would certainly be resolved that way. But if you think it is an acceptable outcome, you value peace too highly.
Apepollo11@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Oh, I agree. Personally I think the world has a duty to stop any country attempting to annex parts of any other country.
I was just tickled by that exchange.
lolcatnip@reddthat.com 11 months ago
The war in Ukraine is not justified. Supporting Ukraine’s defense is.
Don’t make the mistake of thinking the opponents of any particular military action are pacifists.
Apepollo11@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I agree?!
I’m honestly not sure what would make you think otherwise.
PeleSpirit@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Apepollo11@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I should say what to Russia? I don’t understand.
I agree that the world has a duty to stop any attempts a country might make to annex another country’s territory.
Transcendant@lemmy.world 11 months ago
That war can end when Russia stops invading another country. Ukraine defending its citizens and territory is right and proper.
Where are you from?
STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I don’t that’s what he meant. He meant that many Russian soldiers are brainwashed by propaganda as well.
avrachan@lemmings.world 11 months ago
Back when iraq was invaded, Saddam was the aggressor who bad WMD, it all turned out to be a lie.
How do you know that American government is telling it’s citizens complete facts about Ukraine war?
Yes I know Russia is the aggressor here and I am completely against the invasion. However, everyone knew that NATO expansion will trigger a war and US actively pushed for it. American governments hands are not clean when it comes to Ukraine war and American citizens don’t question it at all.
Which brings me to the cartoon here where if you say the above mentioned statements you will be called a tankie, Putin bootlicker etc.
TheBat@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It is none of Russia’s business which group Ukraine joins.
avrachan@lemmings.world 11 months ago
of course you are right. because this is high school and not eastern Europe with a complex geopolitical history.
teichflamme@lemm.ee 11 months ago
You’re not even comparing apples and oranges