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sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

Candace thinks Israel killed Charlie Kirk.

Frankly, I don’t actually think that’s totally impossible, though its far from proven.

However, if you know anything about guns or ballistics… the scenario that has thus far been presented by the FBI as to the kind of weapon that shot Kirk and the angle and distance he was shot from…

Its completely impossible, and does not align with the evidence on the scene.

If Kirk had been shot from basically the front, by a 30.06, in the neck, it would have blown half of his neck off, there would have been a massive back blast of viscera behind him.

What the actual wounds from the autopsy point toward is that roughly a 5.56 round from Kirk’s above and right, entered his neck on the right side, traversed around and through various parts of his neck, untill it ended up severing the corotid artery on his right side and lodging itself into his left collar bone.

That bullet trajectory actually matches the specific injuries from the autopsy, and the video evidence.

A 30.06 from roughly 150 yards away… would have zero chance of embedding itself into a collar bone.

It would detonate it, shatter it, blow it apart.

A 30.06 from 500 yards away will shatter the femur of a moose… there’s an order of magnitude more kinetic energy in a 30.06 than a 5.56 round.

You can run all the math on the physics of this yourself if you doubt it. I’ve already done it, search through my comment history if you want to see it.

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brian@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
while I sorta doubt you did the “math on the physics”, my bigger worry is referring to .30-06 as 30.06, as one of those doesn’t exist, as far as I’m aware.

but stating, factually, that there is “zero chance” of the bullet embedding in the collarbone, is pretty irresponsible. there are a multitude of other things that need to be accounted for in ballistics analysis, which even then can be misinterpreted.

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- sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  
  while I sorta doubt you did the “math on the physics”
  
  As I said, look through my comment history.
  
  .30-06 as 30.06, as one of those doesn’t exist, as far as I’m aware.
  
  Oh my god, I made a formatting typo, therefore I am wrong.
  
  but stating, factually, that there is “zero chance” of the bullet embedding in the collarbone, is pretty irresponsible.
  
  Not it isn’t, because I am correct, about a 30 awktua 06, from the range it was fired from, impacting Kirk at the angle it did.
  
  You must I guess not be aware or how the intial reports from before the autopsy was fully done/released were that Charlie Kirk must have just had literally superhuman bone strength.
  
  totalprosports.com/…/surgeon-makes-miracle-claim-…
  
  Kolvet claimed a doctor told him Kirk’s “incredibly dense bone” stopped a high-powered round that entered his neck during the September 10 shooting at Utah Valley University.
  
  “It was an absolute miracle that someone else didn’t get killed. It should have gone through. It likely would have killed those standing behind him too,” Kolvet quoted the surgeon as saying. Instead, the bullet lodged beneath the skin. He added that Kirk’s body prevented it from striking people standing behind him.
  
  “Even in death, Charlie managed to save the lives of those around him,” Kolvet wrote.
  
  This is, as we say, fucking obvious horseshit.
  
  You of course don’t know about this, because you have not done any research into the actual Kirk assassination whatsoever.
  
  There are many, many more things that involved people said, elements of the supposed story of how Kirk got got… that do line up, that do not make sense, that are inconsistent.
  
  I’m not confident enough to say ‘Israel killed Kirk’ because I have not yet seen conclusive evidence of that.
  
  But I am confident enough to say that the official FBI story is full of obvious holes, say what I said about the 30000000.6, that this all stinks to high heaven.
  
  there are a multitude of other things that need to be accounted for in ballistics analysis, which even then can be misinterpreted.
  
  You could go look through my comment history to see doing that, or, you can just assume I didn’t.
  
  I’ve designed entire realistic ballistic physics models for games and mods, I’ve shot firearms, I’m one of the ‘realism purists’ when it comes to tactical shooters.
  
  I’ve made ballistic models that will figure out likely penetration/ricochet/splatter apart impact angles, when a bullet of various speeds and itself being made of different materials, in different configurations (FMJ, HP, etc), impacts against different materials, which are themselves layered volumetrically.
  
  You don’t need anywhere near that level of real world physical fidelity to be able to confidently state what I stated. Its rather trivial.
  
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  - NOPper@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    
    A 30.06 from 500 yards away will shatter the femur of a moose… there’s an order of magnitude more kinetic energy in a 30.06 than a 5.56 round.
    
    I mean…not to be THAT GUY but this line alone is pretty off. Depends on may factors like any other round, but 5.56 has 1/2-2/3 the energy of a 30-06 round at about 200yd. Ballistic data is pretty easy to come by. Saying that you’ve programmed some stuff for a few games and simulated models doesn’t mean anything at all when your scientific measurement is an imaginary moose femur at 500yds.
    
    Anyway…they have a shooter and his rifle, so I don’t even know why we’re still discussing caliber.
    
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  - ChicoSuave@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    
    I’ve designed entire realistic ballistic physics models for games and mods,
    
    That’s so cool. Which ones?
    
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    sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Games that I am working on in my spare time, haven’t finished yet due to spending the last 2 years recovering from becoming homeless amd becoming greivously injured.
    
    Mods for Garrys Mod that don’t exist as I originally made them anymore, because Garry deleted the entire FacePunch forums…
    
    But, if you play with any reasonably advanced SWEP bases… pretty good chance they’re based off of the bones of what I made 20 years ago.
    
    You’re of course free to not believe any of that, but you could also maybe try an actually go through and check the math that I’ve already done.
    
    Its not that hard for a non crippled person to search through a user’s comments.
    
    It is on the other hand quite painful for a crippled person who has been doing nothing other than Physical Therapy for the last year as a full time occupation to keep trifling with MachismoGrande.
    
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  - JcbAzPx@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    I skimmed your content history and don’t see any math there. If you’re going to make such claims, show your work.
    
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  - TheOctonaut@piefed.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Holy shit it’s one of those guys, the “I did my research” guys. I never get to see them these days. Amazing. Imagine this energy used for something like painting miniatures instead
    
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usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

A 30.06 from roughly 150 yards away, from the front… would have zero chance of embedding itself into a collar bone.

It would detonate it, shatter it, blow it apart.

A 30.06 from 500 yards away will shatter the femur of a moose… there’s an order of magnitude more kinetic energy in a 30.06 than a 5.56 round.

So, knowing nothing about 5.56 rounds but having shot a .30-06 at moose/deer/elk: in the 100-200 yard range the bullet will break a rib, travel through the lungs/heart/etc and then often exit the other side on a smaller animal (deer), or be sitting just inside the hide of a larger one (elk/moose).

I have no opinions on the rest of it that’s just been my experience.

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- sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  Sorry I should have clarified that I meant that at the range of the Kirk shot, roughly 150 yards, a 30.06 has approximately an order or magnitude more kinetic emergy than a 5.56.
  
  Roughly 900 ft-lbs vs roughly 2150 ft-lbs.
  
  Thats another 0, aka, another order of magnitude.
  
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  - hector@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    That rifle almost shoots through a half inch of steel at the range of the alleged kirk shooting place. Gun enthusiasts at Valhalla VFT did some exhaustive deomonstrations. RW or no, I like him, he hates the fucking maga dipshits.
    
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TrickDacy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
I mean, we can distrust both. I’m not clear on what you think happened. Do you not think the person arrested for this is the killer? In any case what is the motivation for lying about the weapon used…?

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- sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  
  Do you not think the person arrested for this is the killer?
  
  Correct.
  
  I think he was/is a patsy.
  
  I think he did take a weapon, on that day, to the spot he was at… but he cannot have fired the shot that hit Kirk, from that location, with a 30.06.
  
  Also… there is inconsistency about the entire timeline of where he was when, what he did with the weapon, and even what weapon we are even talking about.
  
  youtube.com/watch?v=Trp2oAltsj0
  
  Did he… dissassemble it, and then reassemble it, and then go to the location, and then disassemble it, run and jump off the roof, and then reassemble it, and then hide it?
  
  That doesn’t make sense.
  
  The FBI said that he wrapped up the gun in a towel or blanket, and hid it and planned to retrieve it later.
  
  But … the picture of the supposed recovered firearm … is not wrapped in anything, its … in a cardboard box.
  
  Image
  
  The optic is mounted so poorly that it would probably be an overall detriment to making the shot it supposedly made.
  
  So did he… hastily reassemble a weapon he intended to hide, poorly, for some reason?
  
  And did he wrap it up, or put it in a box?
  
  Theres also a … lot of doubt that the correspondence between the shooter/patsy and his ‘boyfriend’, from the day itself is actually real, it uses highly unrealistic language.
  
  You’ve got the weird older crazy guy who loudly announced he was the shooter, but… he wasn’t.
  
  But he also said the point of him doing that was to allow the actual shooter to escape.
  
  www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20e1jx0p5jo
  
  A 71-year-old man who was briefly detained moments after the assassination of Charlie Kirk tried to help the suspected gunman escape by faking a confession, authorities say.
  
  Utah County Sheriff Michael Smith said George Zinn admitted to police that he had “yelled that he was the shooter to allow the actual suspect to flee”.
  
  …
  
  Mr Zinn “intentionally yelled he was the shooter and by doing so, obstructed Law Enforcement from focusing on the actual shooter”, the sheriff said in a statement.
  
  Court documents filed by campus police allege that Mr Zinn began shouting: “I shot him - now shoot me.”
  
  …
  
  Mr Zinn is well known among organisers of public events in Salt Lake City, the New York Times reported. “He showed up frequently to public forums with the intention to disrupt the event or question a high-profile speaker,” it said.
  
  He also has a long history of minor crimes, including an arrest in 2013 for sending a threatening email to the hosts of the Salt Lake City Marathon just days after the Boston Marathon bombing, the newspaper wrote.
  
  I mean, I can’t prove this, but if there ever was a plant, a paid agitator, a ‘crisis actor’… this is what it would look like.
  
  I think the kid genuinely did plan and intend to kill Kirk… and that other people knew about this, and essentially shadowed him.
  
  Palantir? Discord?
  
  Oh, yeah, turns out all that shit’s monitored and catalogued in real time.
  
  So, shadow the kid with a crew.
  
  If the kid was gonna do it, great, he did it, mission accomplished.
  
  If not, well, shooter 2 will pull the trigger if patsy wusses out, and then patsy takes the blame.
  
  And I think scenario 2 is what happened there.
  
  Who all, specifically, is involved in scenario 2?
  
  Well, I don’t know all the exact names, but Kash Patel is one of them, you know, Captain Coverup, some of the others would have to be close to Kirk.
  
  All of this, this is all speculation.
  
  As I said, I know what a gun can and can’t do, the rest of this is a fucking mess.
  
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  - couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Wait so he’s a patsy
    
    But he also killed him
    
    They just went the extra mile to change the rifle (and angle)?
    
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    TachyonTele@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Yeah i am not going to entertain a stupid grassy knoll theory about Chucky kirk, of all people.
    
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Cargon@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
I mean, if right wingers wanted Charlie Kirk dead, who am I to complain?

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- Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  Because it’s more proof Israel is infiltrating and extorting the US government.
  
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  - hector@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Goddamned right. And the actual right has a lot of people opposed to it, the america first people and others, thrown under the bus. While we are told they are coming from anti salmonism so we can’t work with them, by the worst pieces of shit on the planet, dividing and conquering us.
    
    Enough, Epstein is the key to raze and burn the oligarchy. I’m serious, it’s our only chance.
    
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- hector@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  If Israel’s faction, or whomever, on the right, wanted to kirk kirk, it would be to make things worse. So as a good citizen you should be opposed to, say turning his TP org into a hitler youth and school censor, which is where they are going now under Erika, a direction Kirk rejected for his own vision, along with two of their board p[r]icks.
  
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JoeMontayna@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Whatever happened to the theory that it hit his body armor first and deflected up into his neck? I haven’t looked into this in awhile, but recall seeing a video that looked like that is what happened. That would explain the loss in velocity.

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- sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  He was not wearing body armor.
  
  To cause a straight-on shot from a 30.06 or a 5.56 from 150 yards to deflect, at that extreme of an angle, into his neck, externally, he would have had to be wearing plate armor.
  
  Plate armor carriers are quite bulky and noticable.
  
  They would be obviously visible, under a form fitting T Shirt.
  
  There are tons of pics and video of Kirk that day, bending in different directions… at no point does he appear to be wearing a plate carrier under his shirt.
  
  Kevlar or a more flexible kind of armor would not have deflected such a straight-on shot, it would have ‘caught’ it, or just slowed it down and spread some of the impact energy over the rest of his chest, while ultimately failing to stop the bullet from penetrating into him.
  
  Either a straight-on shot to kevlar or plate would have caused brusing and/or fractures to his chest, whether the scenario is deflection or penetration.
  
  Those were not indicated by the autopsy.
  
  If he had been wearing body armor, been shot from the front, and the bullet then ricocheted into his neck…
  
  The shirt would have a hole or tear of some kind where the initial impact happened.
  
  It does not.
  
  He had a backup lapel mic on his right pectoral, which was magnetically attached under his shirt, which then had a wire going across his chest, to a powerbank/transciever on his left side.
  
  aap.com.au/…/viral-conspiracy-theory-about-charli…
  
  The deformation of his shirt was a result of the impact of the round hitting him, causing him to jolt, which knocking off the earpiece, which tugged on the wire under his shirt.
  
  Kirk wearing the lapel mic at another event:
  
  Image
  
  The visible backup lapel mic on his right pec, immediately prior to being shot:
  
  Image
  
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  - JoeMontayna@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Thanks for the explanation. Sorry, I’m new to this platform and I did not even realize you replied until now. Thank you for clearing this up for me.
    
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    sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Oh hey, no prob!
    
    Yeah, the… fragmented-by-design nature of lemmy can be a bit confusing… I don’t even know how many different mobile client apps there are at this point, and many instances have differing layouts for the web browser version.
    
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hector@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
The official story is bullshit. Not only on the ballistics but especially that. The rifle was supposedly broken down and put into that tiny pack in 1 minute flat, then reassembled in a nearby chicken coop, that a bomb/gun sniffing dog scanned without signalling anything, and an FBI finds it first minute on the scene.

It’s not possible, these working dogs are incredible, they didn’t miss a fired gun.

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