Good! I‘m grateful that the CCP is stepping in where the West is ignorant. Thanks to heavy lobbying by fossil fuels and car industries we would never have affordable cars in Europe without China. Thank you Xi Jinping for saving the climate 🙏
Comment on Tesla sales plunge 40% in Europe as Chinese EV rival BYD's triple
Ulrich@feddit.org 21 hours ago
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn’t be any surprise they’re selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives are stripping incentives away.
tyra@lemmy.ml 21 hours ago
Ulrich@feddit.org 21 hours ago
LOOOOOLOLOLOL have you looked at China’s greenhouse gas contributions lately? They don’t give a fuck about the climate, they’re just trying to drive other countries out of the market.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
Chinese carbon emissions may have peaked this year and they’ve deployed more renewables than the rest of the world combined.
Ulrich@feddit.org 21 hours ago
That’s because they’re also heavily subsidizing that industry out of self-interest. That’s the “emerging markets” I mentioned above.
stephen@lazysoci.al 21 hours ago
As always - well under what USA is putting into the atmosphere. ourworldindata.org/…/co-emissions-per-capita
Ulrich@feddit.org 21 hours ago
That’s per Capita, China has like 30 billion more citizens.
Amberskin@europe.pub 18 hours ago
Maybe YOU should give another look at those figures.
Specially the ones relative to the % of new renewables put into production during the last years.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 18 hours ago
Doesn’t the EU balance it out with tariffs?
Those cheap BYDs ain’t all that cheap here
Now if EU increased subsidies for domestic EV production, domestic solar panel production, etc… We could really have something great.
Ulrich@feddit.org 18 hours ago
Doesn’t the EU balance it out with tariffs?
No.
Those cheap BYDs ain’t all that cheap here
Yes they are.
Now if EU increased subsidies for domestic EV production, domestic solar panel production, etc… We could really have something great.
Truth there.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 18 hours ago
Hmm
In October 2024, the EU increased tariffs on Chinese-built EVs, including 17% on those made by BYD and 35.3% for SAIC, on top of its standard car import duty.
Ulrich@feddit.org 17 hours ago
Yes, we have established that the EU has tariffs. What we’ve not established is that BYD isn’t significantly less expensive than other brands in the EU.
BYDs seem cheap because they make budget EVs. Mercedes, Audi, etc, do not.
Mercedes, Audi, etc. are established several decade old prestigious brands that don’t need rock bottom prices to gain market share.
BYDs don’t “seem” cheap. They are cheap.
Buffalox@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real
Nope, you are just wrong. I guarantee you I’m not a tankie, but I think it’s pretty clear that USA has absolutely also subsidized electric cars, especially Tesla that has been generously subsidized in multiple ways, also subsidizing their charging network.
On top of that, USA has prevented a lot of outside competition with tariffs.All in all i am personally sick and tired of Americans always pointing fingers at the Chinese for doing the exact same thing Americans are doing.
Ulrich@feddit.org 18 hours ago
Nope you are just wrong and intentionally spreading false equivalencies and making strawman arguments.
Let’s put aside for a moment the fact that I only spoke negatively about the US, and instead focus on the fact that the US has subsidized electric vehicles from around the world to the tune of $1B in an effort to promote the sales of clean vehicles. China has subsidized to the tune of $230B for domestic vehicles only.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 13 hours ago
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
Prices are not absurdly lower than western cars. Maybe $5k less for equivalent to Tesla, and
which basically forces people to buy them
a key program in China is not from CCP. City governments give licence plates to EVs letting them drive every day. There is a trade in incentive, and sales tax break, still, afaik, but all of that is less than what US had, and EVs without subsidies are cheaper than ICE vehicles, as they are starting to be in the west as well.
You are being downvoted because you don’t know what you’re talking about, and “everyone’s a tankie” for not being as uninformed or propagandized as you.
gian@lemmy.grys.it 6 hours ago
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
And is even cheaper if someone else pay 30% of what you need to spend to build a car. So you can sell the car 30% less than others and still make a profit (maybe).
It is not a mystery that CCP subsidizes a lot of domestic EVs (among other things like solar panel) to become the dominant player in the market.
What would be interesting to see is what will happen after they become the dominant player.humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 hours ago
It is not a mystery how propaganda gets started.
Steel is 1/3 the price as US. Alumnium 1/2. Markets with Futures trading. There’s over 300 car companies in China. They are not all directly subsidized. There is state involved ownership (from factory building) in Steel, but they make money at market prices.
gian@lemmy.grys.it 46 minutes ago
There is state involved ownership (from factory building) in Steel, but they make money at market prices.
They make money because they can write off 30% of the cost of the car being paid from someone else, in one form or another.
Networkcathode@piefed.social 21 hours ago
“In Europe”
Ulrich@feddit.org 21 hours ago
Sorry, did you have a question?
kameecoding@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
His point is, da fuck does chinese market have to do with BYD tripling it’s sales in Europe.
Ulrich@feddit.org 21 hours ago
No one is talking about the Chinese market…
tonytins@pawb.social 21 hours ago
Corporations are not as self-sufficient as they claim to be.
Ulrich@feddit.org 21 hours ago
Relevance?
granolabar@kbin.melroy.org 20 hours ago
US made tesla what it is with a lot of state aid and it still failed.
China won.
You tried to paint it as if only china provides subsidies as some sort of gotcha.
Ulrich@feddit.org 20 hours ago
US made tesla what it is with a lot of state aid and it still failed.
LOL what? What makes you say Tesla “failed”? They’re an incredibly large and profitable company.
You tried to paint it as if only china provides subsidies as some sort of gotcha.
I did no such thing. You are trying to paint what I said that way as some sort of gotcha. Many countries have EV subsidies. None of them compare to that of those from the CCP.
The US, for example, has paid approx. $1B in clean vehicle tax credits. China? $230B.
then_three_more@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
Also it’s much easier to triple a small number than a big one.
black_flag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 hours ago
Just read an article recently that while battery cell cost has fallen and overall capacity have risen, price of EVs continues to rise.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 12 hours ago
in 2024 in the west they were falling still. Europe stats are strong for all EVs. Should not be Tesla vs BYD. cleantechnica.com/…/eu-overtakes-the-rest-of-the-… 29% growth in first half of the year, and even higher in July. BEVs+Hybrids is almost 60% of sales. PHEV+BEV 24%, which is much higher than US, though behind China. Total car sales up, while ICE sales down.
European brands doing well. I don’t know the prices of every model, but they have to be providing value to be doing so well.
3dcadmin@lemmy.relayeasy.com 8 hours ago
Most of my car friends won’t touch an EV still here in the UK because the infrastructure isn’t good enough, and those same friends won’t touch a Chinese car either. Only a few have tried Tesla and all have got rid. Currently in the UK if you are a company car person you’d be mad not to get an EV as they are subsidised so much, but equally mad to get one as your only personal car as the charging network is shocking still. When here it is MORE expensive to charge an EV whilst out and about than fuel a petrol car something is seriously wrong
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 hour ago
EVs are better cars, and most people are happy with them to get another EV in future. You do need private charging solutions to make it cheaper/convenient, and home solar makes it even better economics. Public charging is something you should plan to use a handful of times per year.
rainwall@piefed.social 21 hours ago
You should learn about US fossil fuel subsidies. The US alone pumps almost 800 billion/yr into subsidising the industry.
China tossing 40 Billions/yr into EV subsidies is basically pocket change comparatively.
Ulrich@feddit.org 21 hours ago
We are not having a pissing match over which country is worse, we are discussing why China is dominating the EV market.
rainwall@piefed.social 21 hours ago
China spending 1/20 of what the US does to subsidize cars isn't relevant? Sure thing buddy.
The whole point of all of these "china is only dominating in EV sales due to subsidies" comments is to throw shade on China's impressive progress. A contrast with their subsidies vs other countries in the same space, motor vehicles, is entirely relevant.
Ulrich@feddit.org 21 hours ago
US fossil fuel subsidies are relevant to China dominating the electric vehicle market? Sure thing buddy.
kurcatovium@piefed.social 19 hours ago
I believe main goal of China investing in green tech is to show middle finger to oil and gas producers. China has virtually none of both oil and gas and so is reliant on import. With mostly green cars and electricity from water, sun and wind, they will have much, much better leverage in global say.
Buffalox@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
They are not, VW group is. China market share was very tiny, and is now growing. And Tesla has collapsed.
But the big winners are mostly European, and then Hyundai/KIA, and now Toyota has finally made a good BEV, so they will increase their BEV marketshare too of course.
moonburster@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
Was gonna say this as well. The Asian brands that have dominated the eu markets still do so. Vw as well, even after their eco blue debacle.