Men aren't taught how to make and maintain emotionally open friendships,
If this was true... Why is this an issue only now?
Or all these men were lonely in the closet?
Comment on what are the grievances with the "male loneliness epidemic"?
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Some is valid. Men aren’t taught how to make and maintain emotionally open friendships, with men or women. It’s seen as weak or weird to cry on front of your bros when you’re sad. This leads to loneliness. This is real.
Some is not valid. Men claiming that they’re not getting laid and it’s women’s fault is bullshit. Or that women have impossibly high standards and are gold diggers. It’s nonsense.
The problem is that the “women hating incels” have coopted the term, and their garbage deserves to be mocked.
sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 1 day ago
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
A lot of social organizations that men had used started dying. I have a friend who runs a freemason lodge and he struggles to get people to join. Other similar social clubs have also fallen by the wayside. Similarly the decline of long term geographic community has been brutal and people are less likely to get to know their neighbors or become regulars at the local bar.
I see a lot of talk about how women’s liberation and the power to leave a bad marriage has been a component, but I suspect otherwise, having grown up with parents in a failing marriage. I strongly suspect that what a lot of these lonely men need is friends and community in a way that even a loving wife won’t cut it, much less a cold and distant wife and resentful children.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
It’s easier to not care about a guy’s mental health when he’s married, even if it’s a shitty marriage. How can he be lonely if he has a wife, after all?
I’m happy for divorces. I’m happy for the increase in male loneliness BEING NOTICED. It used to just be the guy would work all day, or drink himself to death silently, to avoid the issue.
But the next step has to be for guys to be open to make emotional friendships.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Yeah as a woman I see a certain portion of men who seem to want to push resolving male loneliness onto women. But like, we genuinely can only help here. If men want advice from women on how to make friends and find community, we can do that, but like, even if the friends a man makes are women we didnt fix his loneliness, he went out and made friends and was vulnerable and supportive and got supported in kind.
howrar@lemmy.ca 23 hours ago
I would guess it has something to do with the loss of third places.
sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 22 hours ago
That's definitely a factor... Suburban experiment is objective failure on many levels but it is like as much to do with cost of being out too.
Can't go to bars or restaurants anymore. Shit is too expensive for normal income person to sustain in any meaningful way.
Also, DUIs but that ties into first point.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
It’s not an issue only now. But we’re not isolated than before because we lost our third spaces and communities. Bunch of lonely wolves.
kersploosh@sh.itjust.works 15 hours ago
Yep. Robert Putnam’s book “Bowling Alone” turns 25 this year, and it’s as relevant as ever.
zeropointone@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
I would argue that loneliness is primarily a problem of luxury. If you have to constantly fight for survival you don’t have the resources left to think about how lonely you are, you only focus on food, water, shelter, how to avoid predators and so on. You’re simply too occupied, too tired to think about how lonely you are.
garbagebagel@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
Its gotten worse because women are no longer forced to stay in or get into shitty, unfulfilling marriages. Men before had guaranteed companionship in the sense that it was societally and financially expected for a woman to stay in a relationship and provide emotional (and physical) companionship. With women becoming more independent, they’re able to leave abusive situations or to avoid getting into them in the first place.
Therefore, if men are not socialized to maintain friendships and no one is being forced to emotionally support them anymore, then they are lonely.
FoxyFerengi@startrek.website 23 hours ago
The sheer number of men who suddenly have no support in their life because their relationship has ended, that soon struggle with suicidal thoughts should really point to the first thing you said. Men and women are socialized differently as children and this is one of the most common results when we reach adulthood. It will take an enormous shift in society and ingrained values to fix that
That second point, yeah, women don’t need to get married to survive now. My grandmother couldn’t have her own bank account when she was a young adult, and banks would have laughed her out of town if she wanted a mortgage. My parents got married young because that was still kind of expected, especially in rural America. I haven’t dated in years, because it’s frustrating, and I have been able to, and lucky enough, to buy a home on my own finances.
Witchfire@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Do men really not have any friends? I just moved to a new country and made like 5 close friends in the first few months, so that blows my mind in a sad way
FoxyFerengi@startrek.website 22 hours ago
I’m not a cis man, but every man I’ve dated has had “friends”, but not people they can really talk to. Like, one guy I dated had a really big social circle and they regularly had gaming events. But he didn’t text or talk to anyone outside of planning and going to those events. Others had maybe one friend that they hung out with outside of work.
It is sad. And it was jarring when I was young, because I had lots of friends I could turn to on a bad day or for something more serious. It makes me so angry with “the patriarchy”, because it isn’t just keeping women down, it’s also hurting and sometimes killing men.
I had a cat die a very painful and sad death right in the veterinarian’s parking lot. I was completely devastated, but my poor boyfriend kept trying to hold back his tears because he “needed to be strong” for me. Bitch no, cry with me, that was super heavy. I’m going to carry that death with me until I die, and not just because my cat didn’t deserve that. It’s not fair for men to have this expectation that they need to hold back expressing emotion so they appear strong. (that particular ex also has a fear of dying, so he really needed to and should have felt free to express himself at that time)
Witchfire@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
I agree, I wish more men would realize that feminism also benefits men. Even things as small as being able to freely express yourself are hurt by the patriarchy
HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
I am the exception that proves the rule in a way. I am EXTREMELY open with my mental state and emotions. If I have known you for more than a few hours/days (or even minutes if there’s a connection of some kind) I will gladly explain to you exactly how badly I crave the sweet embrace of death. How long I have felt that. Why I feel that.
Men react in strange ways to that.
Women react in what you would probably call a predictable way. They are concerned, try to ask for reasons and offer comfort.
Men are sometimes curious, but most often, they just say, “same.” There isn’t always discussion about it after that but I don’t really meet men who have not considered suicide. It’s so pervasive.
zeropointone@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
I had friends but they’re all dead now. The best always have to leave early.
_spiffy@lemmy.ca 22 hours ago
Depends. I find making new friends very difficult because I don’t have many of the same interests and the rest of the people that I naturally get exposed to via my kids, wife or life. I work from home and don’t have much time for social hobbies. I go to concerts sometimes but I really struggle to make conversation with strangers. I can see how someone like me would end up being lonely for a long time.
naught101@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
Social hobbies are where it’s at. I’ve never met anyone meaningful at a concert. Hobbies (and activism) though, all the people all the time.
“Don’t have much time”… I guess it it’s important to you, you should figure out how to make time for it
sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 hours ago
I’m having trouble making friends. There is one guy sort of near me and we do things here and there, but he and his wife are about to move. Most of my other friends live far away.
I don’t have a lot in common with the people I work with, or live near, and I don’t have much energy to do things outside of work. There is more that I’d say but I’m acutely aware / paranoid that some ai tool is reading all of our comments and building profiles on us. I’m trying to build a better life and find more communities where I feel welcome, but it’s slow going. Maybe that explains it somewhat?
Witchfire@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
I knew of one person here though we never actually met before moving. Also happened to end up meeting a long time internet friend.
Aside from those two, my partner and I searched for community events and went to quite a few. Met a lot of people there. Community events are honestly a fantastic jumping off point.
Also made one or two friends randomly just hanging at a park.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
Not her but I am a woman who moved across my country and made friends within a few months. It’s social hobbies and active participation in subcultural events. I love bicycles, years back I got into volunteering at a bicycle repair cooperative, it made me some casual friends with whom I hung out working on bikes every other week. When I moved I found one to volunteer at again, though I haven’t started yet. Similar social hobbies/volunteering are great. And for subculture stuff, its just that that’s a really great way to find casual hang out events if you have a subculture you’re interested in. I know goths all over have bar nights, as do plenty of other communities. It just serves as a really quick and easy “hey we have this in common” starter.
When in doubt, look up events happening in your area and check out any that interest you. Chat with folks when you’re at them.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 10 hours ago
Nothing else you said matters apart from this. You can’t really make friends when you refuse to do anything where you would meet people or turn colleagues into friends.