We’re also going to run out of oil in the next 40-45 years, so we should factor that in.
Comment on Oxford study proves heat pumps triumph over fossil fuels in the cold
vector_zero@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s great, but fossil fuels are often available in the event of a power outage, and that can save lives during a winter storm. Availability is just as important as efficiency, and until we can make our power grid more resilient, we need to factor that in.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 1 year ago
DarthBueller@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I wonder who the fuck is downvoting these comments. LOL - “NO FOSSIL FUELS, YOU MUST DIE IN A POWER OUTAGE!”
Incandemon@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Maybe its not because of assholes? Maybe its because the comment is objectively wrong?
Neither my gas water heater, or gas furnace work during a power outage. As another commenter said they both have electronic controls.
DarthBueller@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yes, and a gas generator or a remarkably small battery and inverter/dc-dc transformer overcomes the obstacle of powering the electronics - no need for a powerwall. Or you can have a woodstove - not fossil fuels, but def burning carbon for heat.
Rocketpoweredgorilla@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Most gas furnaces use forced air blowers to distribute the heat. You’re not running that on a small battery.
vector_zero@lemmy.world 1 year ago
My gas fireplace works great in a power outage, as do my stove and grill. Just because a subset of gas-powered appliances don’t work doesn’t mean none of them work.
Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you live in an area where power outages are common enough that you need a backup generator: Sure. but also learn how to properly install that (an improperly installed backup generator can injure or kill the utility workers trying to fix an outage) and how to safely operate it (carbon monoxide, yo). Although, there are also arguments for solar power and the associated battery storage in those cases. Similarly, vehicle to load which turns a car into a battery in the event of isolated blackouts.
But if there is a power outage, the grid is already not “resilient”. So…
stealthnerd@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I have a duel fuel system (heat pump + gas furnace) which, while more expensive, is really the best of both worlds.
In a power outage I can plug in a generator and get the furnace running.
If temps drop too low and the heat pump is struggling I can switch to the furnace.
I can choose which to run based on current energy costs.
When looking into heat pumps everyone told me they don’t work well in the northeast or they would be more expensive to run here. I found it really difficult to get an accurate estimate of the cost difference between running a heat pump vs a gas furnace. Ultimately I decided to go dual fuel for flexibility but after comparing my bills before and after I almost wish I’d gone with a hyper heat unit so it could run at lower outdoor temps because the heat pump has turned out to be cheaper than but I can’t run it at low temps.
I think HVAC techs in this area are weary of them based on past experience with older units but they really have improved in recent years.
hellothere@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
The vast majority of gas boilers use electronics to function. In a powercut they are also dead.
Now if you’re talking diesel generator back ups, then far enough.
Rocketpoweredgorilla@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
If you have a generator, you can easily run the heat pump off of them as well.
I live in Canada where it’s commonly -30c or colder in the winter. heat pumps work fine around here and quite a few places have them, from houses to factories. The only problem is the initial set up costs, because the plumbing has to get buried below the frost line (6-8 feet down). After that it’s smooth sailing for the most part.
Even in power outages, heated floors can retain their heat for much longer than conventional means, sometimes up to a day or two.
coffeebiscuit@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Even gas stoves won’t work when the power is down, for the same reason.
DarthBueller@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Heard of a match?
GregoryTheGreat@programming.dev 1 year ago
Some won’t let gas flow if there is no electricity.
joshhsoj1902@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
If you have a gas stove you really shouldn’t be using it without the fan running.
A power outage is one of those times as people are tempted to use it more and for longer if it’s the easiest source of heat.
sploosh@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you want to heat air and move it around you’re gonna want a fan, which will need electricity. My gas heat is no good when the power is out.
UFO64@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Provided the pressure is maintained from the outside, mine would work fine with a match.
coffeebiscuit@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Mine had a safety valve, which was unfortunately electronically controlled.
ThePantser@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There are tons of non electronic gas heaters. I have one in my basement just for power outages so we can stay alive in the winter if we don’t have power. But I do think for majority of heating and cooling I would love to rip out my central furnace and replace with heat pumps but the cost is too great ATM. I have two heat pumps now, one in my garage and one in my top floor where the furnace could never reach.
GiddyGap@lemm.ee 1 year ago
There are significant tax credits and rebates to be had: hvac.com/…/inflation-reduction-act-heat-pump-reba…
carl_dungeon@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I have propane heat- a small generator will power the fans while the propane provides the actual heat. The generator wouldn’t be able to handle a whole heat pump though. I do lose power a lot and lost it for 4 days straight last Jan. This situation isn’t without merit.
bamboo@lemm.ee 1 year ago
If it’s just control systems though, they may be able to run off of a UPS for a day or so.
aircooledJenkins@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There are fans and pumps as well.