Comment on Why Americans Can’t Buy the World’s Best Electric Car

Mrkawfee@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• latenightnoir@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Our free market’s good, yours is the problem!

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• CosmoNova@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  „Free market“? Speaking of hypocrisy. Chinese car brands are so heavily subsidized they probably cost the Chinese economy more than they make selling them at the moment. China is clearly trying to drown the global market with cheap cars so they can ramp up prices immensely once they have killed the competition and have become a monopoly. China hasn‘t been the extreme low income country to produce super cheaply for a long time and they couldn‘t produce cars this cheap in a free market situation.

  Many countries and the EU have measures against such practices because state run operations with the sole purpose to destroy an industry (which this is) undermine the very idea of the free market or even trade relationships.

  Alternatively we could start subsiding local car makers and play the same little game China is playing but more cars is honestly the last thing we need right now. Tariffs are a much smoother option to deal with this even when they have a bad rep.

  Ideally we use that generated money from tariffs to subsidize public transport so we don‘t get cheaper cars but cheaper alternatives but that‘s still just a dream I‘m afraid.

  Whatever the case, one should look at super cheap cars and what that means in the long run more critically.

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  • wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Alternatively we could start subsiding local car makers

    We have been. Bailout after bailout. For the longest fucking time, and have had insane trade rules and tarrigs in place for decades and decades. I’d argue this is what another country finally being able to play on a level playing field.

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    • homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      After the auto industry intentionally killed public transport.

      The fact that one of the most powerful monopolies in the world went bankrupt and was forced to be bailed out by taxpayers more than once should really be a disqualifier for any future endeavors.

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      • witchybitchy@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        you accidentally forget to pay ur credit card minimum for one month and you’re docked so many credit score points that you’re ineligible for being given a loan.

        but we bail out these megacorps time and again and just keep letting them operate like nothing’s amiss

        shit’s borked (intentionally, to favor those with means)

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    • BastingChemina@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      GM received more than $7 billions of subsidies and around $50 billions of “Federal loans, loan guarantees and bailout assistance”.

      US auto manufacturers are getting their fair share of subsidies.

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      • anomnom@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        To be fair GM sold or closed a lot of its brands and foreign subsidiaries, and paid back the loan.

        I fucking hate what the IS auto industry has historically and is currently doing (making constantly bigger and more expensive trucks in a time we need smaller lighter EVs), but it’s actually a bit different from the SpaceX or EV credit subsidies and more of a low interest loan.

        The US has far too many dispersed rural towns for public transit to cover. Yes we need more high speed rail and light rail, but we’re gonna need personal cars because of distances, weather and employment practices for a long time still. And there’s no reason they need to be 3 ton high soeed blind spots.

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    • 418_im_a_teapot@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Is it a level playing field? In China workers rights are pretty non-existent and there’s no OSHA equivalent, at least not to the degree we have in the US. Then add in government subsidies, lower worker pay, reduced R&D costs because they pilfered the engineering from a US company, and you end up with a very lopsided market.

      To be clear, I am in no way defending the US auto industry. They have little customer loyalty for a reason – low quality, overpriced, subscription dependent vehicles with terrible warranties, expensive service requirements, and invasive telemetry. They need more competition to force them to make more consumer-friendly decisions, but China is hardly a fair competitor.

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      • wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        In China workers rights are pretty non-existent and there’s no OSHA equivalent, at least not to the degree we have in the US

        How much maternity leave d’you get in the US? Cause in. China it’s a minimum of 90 days up to 180. And an extra 15~30 days of pat leave. Mandatory paid holiday? US: 0 China: 11. Sick leave? US: 0 China: months (at reduced rate).

        The work sfatey certainly remains an issue, like any developing country, but things are rapidly improving.

        Efforts at work safety shall be oriented around people and reflect the principle of people first and life first, with top priority given to people’s life safety. The philosophy of safe development shall be adhered to and the principles of safety first, prevention as the main target as well as comprehensive administration shall be followed to forestall and resolve major safety risks at the source.

        en.npc.gov.cn.cdurl.cn/2021-06/10/c_786248.htm

        Things aren’t all roses in China, but y’all have to get off of your high horse when you know fuck all other than bland ass propaganda.

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    • CosmoNova@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      You can‘t compare a bailout with an aggressive offensive. Especially since western car makers and many other manufacturers outsourced to China in the process. There are few to no parallels to be drawn here. A more accurate, albeit tasteless comparison would be the China opium wars. Because that‘s essentially what they‘re aiming to do: Making us addicts to their product.

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    • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      When was the second bailout? Or the first if you’re referring to something older.

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  • Tiger666@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    We have subsidized the big three many times, and they return nothing back. At this point, they should be nationalized.

    You have a very simple way of looking at things and are part of the problem that is going on.

    Your ignorance is showing. Tuck it in.

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    • CosmoNova@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      You tankies really have a way with words.

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  • BB84@mander.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    If something is being so heavily subsidized, the correct market response is to buy as much as possible, and resell once the prices ramp up.

    Setting up tariffs and complaining about subsidies? 100% not the “free market” response. It’s cope.

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    • InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      True, even Milton Friedman (barf) said we should be thankful if someone wants to subsides our lives. Besides these market extremists say all government intervention is bound to fail, so they should have nothing to fear letting the BYDs in. The socialist subsidy of BYD will collapse and we don’t want the government distorting our market either.

      This isn’t really my personal take, but i like using their own logic to reach a conclusion they will hate.

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    • CosmoNova@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Are you trying to be funny or something? Used electric cars aren‘t exactly going up in price. What a bunch of nonsense. Talking about cope.

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• IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  It’s not a free market.

  BYD is heavily subsidized .

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  • FireRetardant@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Pretty sure big oil and car companies have been bailed out by the US government in the past. Plus america designs most of its cities so that you need to own a car. Seems like both markets are equally “free” at the end of the day.

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    • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      A one time loan which made money is hardly a subsidy by comparison to China right now. That’s an absurd comparison. Apples to oranges. Hell apples to baseballs.

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      • FireRetardant@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        There is also CAFE standards that made small, effecient vehicles require extremely high emissions standards while allowing looser standards for larger, less effecient vehicles. Effectively limiting foriegn market influence while increasing both the price and size of the average vehicle on American roads.

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    • Tiger666@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      The majority shareholder at GM is the US treasury.

      One of the majority holders at Stelantis is their workers’ union.

      en.wikipedia.org/…/Effects_of_the_2008–2010_autom…

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  • Akasazh@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    American car makers famously unsubsidized and holding up their own pants.

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    • ggtdbz@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      The oil industry is famously completely independent from government subsidy. Especially when it comes to setting urban development policy and planning transportation systems, these have no bearing at all oil demand and they also cost nothing.

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    • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Compared globally? Yeah mostly so.

      What subsides do US cars get that other countries don’t have similar programs?

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• finitebanjo@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Free markets were always a terrible idea, the USA economic system was basically founded on principles of regulation of goods like tea, tobacco, and alcohol.

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