I mean, for the price of a mid range graphics card I can still buy a whole console. GPU prices are ridiculous. Never mind everything else on top of that.
Comment on Chips aren’t improving like they used to, and it’s killing game console price cuts
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Consoles are just increasingly bad value for consumers compared to PCs.
Skyline969@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
turbowafflz@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Yeah but remember to factor in that you probably already need a normal computer for non-game purposes so if you also use that for games you only have to buy one device not two
Fondots@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I just built a PC after not having a computer for about 5+ years.
Built it for games, did not feel like I was missing out on anything in particular except games by not having a computer. There’s a lot of things I’d rather use a computer for but these days most of what I used to do on a computer can be done just fine from a phone or tablet.
During those 5 or so years, I maybe needed to use a computer about a dozen times, and if my wife didn’t have a computer I could have just swung by a library for a bit to take care of it.
taladar@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
To me tablets feel like the most useless devices ever invented. Too large to carry around with you but just as stupidly limited as a phone compared to a real computer where you can actually automate some of your tasks and type on a decent keyboard and have a decent sized screen that doesn’t ruin your wrists with the weight of holding it up.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You can build a pretty capable PC for about $600. And you won’t have to pay for multiplayer.
Grangle1@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
“Pretty capable” will get you dunked on in the PC gaming world. For what I’ve seen PC gamers actually recommend I could buy 2-3 modern consoles.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
That’s just nonsense. Maybe some 13 year olds with rich parents think like that.
ano_ba_to@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
If I’m building a PC for gaming, I wouldn’t limit myself to $600. Would you? I’ve never not had PCs or laptops since I first had one in the 90s. I’m building again now to go Linux. 7800xt and 2 Tb SSD cost as much as a PS5 Pro in my part of the world. I only started getting into consoles because I can afford it now, and for physical games. I don’t really get why today it’s PC vs. consoles. I was into PCs but never judged consoles as inferior, just different.
Skyline969@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Along with paying for multiplayer I get access to a large catalog of games as well as additional games every month. Yes they’re inaccessible if I stop paying, but that’s not really a big deal. Even all that aside, I pretty much play single player games anyway.
Also, when a game comes out I know it’ll work. No driver bugs, no messing with settings, no checking minimum and recommended specs, it just works. And it works the same for everyone on the platform. I don’t have any desire to spend a bunch of time tweaking settings to get things just right, only to have the game crash for some esoteric reason or another.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Yeah, GPU prices are kinda ridiculous, but a 7600 is probably good enough to match console quality (essentially the same as the 6650XT, so get whatever is cheaper), and I see those going for $330. It should be more like $250, so maybe you can find it closer to that amount when there’s a sale. Add $500-600 for mobo, CPU, PSU, RAM storage, and a crappy case, and you have a decent gaming rig. Maybe I’m short by $100 or so, but that should be somewhere in the ballpark.
So $900-1000 for a PC. That’s about double a console, extra if you need keyboard, monitor, etc. Let’s say that’s $500. So now we’re 3x a console.
Entry cost is certainly higher, so what do you get in return?
- deeper catalogue
- large discounts on older games (anything older than a year or so)
- emulation and other PC tasks
- can upgrade piecemeal - next console gen, just need a new CPU + GPU, and if you go AMD, you can probably skip a gen on your mobo + RAM
- can repurpose old PC once you rebuild it (my old PC is my NAS)
- generally no need to pay a sub for multiplayer
Depending on how many and what types of games you play, it may or may not be cheaper. I play a ton of indies and rarely play AAA new releases, so a console would be a lot more expensive for me. I also have hundreds of games, and probably play 40 or so in a given year (last year was 50 IIRC). If I save just $10 per game, it would be the same price as a console after 2 years, but I save far more since I wait for sales. Also, I’ll have a PC anyway, so technically I should only count the extra stuff I buy for playing games, as in my GPU.
Skyline969@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
You do make some decent points, but the console has one major aspect that PC simply does not have: convenience. I install a game and I’m playing it. No settings to tweak, no need to make sure my drivers are up to date, no need to make sure other programs I’m running are interfering with the game, none of that. If I get a game for my console I know it absolutely will work, with the exception of a simply shitty game which happens on PC too.
The other thing I wanted to touch on was the cheap games. That’s just as relevant on console nowadays. For example, I’ve been slowly buying the Yakuza games for $10-$15 each. That’s the exact same discounts I’ve seen on Steam.
For backwards compatibility, it depends on your console. Xbox is quite impressive - if you have an Xbox Series X you can play any game ever released for any Xbox all the way back to the original. Just stick in the disc. With PlayStation, it’s just PS4 games that the PS5 is backwards compatible with. Sony needs to do better. And with Nintendo… lol.
Yeah, with a PC you can do other things than gaming. For most of that you can get a cheap laptop. There are definitely edge cases where a powerful PC is needed such as development, CAD, AI, etc. But on average a gaming-spec PC is not necessary. I’m saying that as a developer and systems administrator for the past 14 years.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
No settings to tweak, no need to make sure my drivers are up to date, no need to make sure other programs I’m running are interfering with the game, none of that.
I also do almost none of that on my PC. I do install updates, but that’s pretty much in the background. Then again, I use Linux, so maybe it’s different on Windows these days? I doubt it.
Most people tweak settings and whatnot because they want to, not because they need to in order to get a decent experience. I use my PC and Steam Deck largely as a console: install games then then play. That’s it.
I’ve been slowly buying the Yakuza games for $10-$15 each
Steam isn’t the only store for buying games on PC, so the chance that you can buy a given game on sale on a given day is quite a bit higher vs console, where there’s only one store. I’ve picked games up on Steam, Fanatical, or Humble Bundle, and there are several others if you’re interested in looking.
For example, here’s Yakuza 0 price history on PC, it has been $10 somewhere for almost a year. On PlayStation, it looks like it’s been $20 most of the year. I actually got it for a little under $5 about 5 years ago, and I only paid >$10 for one Yakuza game (most were $7-8).
Tons of games show up in bundles as well. I have picked up tons of games for $2-5 each (sometimes less) as part of a bundle, and that’s just not really a thing on consoles.
if you have an Xbox Series X you can play any game ever released for any Xbox all the way back to the original
Interesting, that’s pretty cool!
gaming-spec PC
Honestly, the difference between a “gaming spec” PC and one targeting only typical tasks is pretty minimal outside the GPU, assuming you’re targeting console quality. You really don’t need a high end CPU, RAM, or mobo to play games, you can match CPU perf w/ something mid-range, so $150-ish for the CPU. Likewise for the GPU, you can get comparable quality for something in the $300-400 range, probably less now since the PS5 and XBox Series consoles are kind of old.
But that’s assuming you need console quality. You can get by with something a bit older if you turn the settings down a bit.
If you want to save cash, you have a lot more options on PC vs consoles. If you want to go all out, you have a lot more options on PC vs consoles for maxing out performance. PC gaming is as expensive as you make it. I used the same PC for playing games for something like 10 years before getting an upgrade (upgraded the GPU once), because it played all the games I wanted it to. If I have a console, chances are the newer games will stop supporting my older console a year or so after the new one launches, so I don’t have any options once the console goes out of support outside of buying a new one.
That said, there are a ton of caveats:
- don’t buy laptops for gaming, they are way too expensive and can’t really be upgraded (Framework exists, sure, and I think eGPUs still do, but that’s going to be expensive)
- don’t buy a pre-built PC if you want to save money - if you DIY your PC, you can save a bit of cash, but more importantly, you’re more likely to upgrade it vs replace it later on
- you can spend a ton on PC gaming, if you follow whatever the influencer trends are (everyone needs a top-end GPU for $2k or whatever, plus a monitor > 200 hz)
- consoles have a much better couch co-op experience
I have a Switch for the couch co-op experience, as well as ease of use for my kids to just put in a game and play, and a PC for most of my personal gaming time (I also have a Steam Deck so I can play in bed or on vacation). I have something like 20 Switch games and hundreds of PC games.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
GPU prices are ridiculous, but those GPUs are also ridiculously more powerful than anything in any console.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Tbh the only consoles I’ve been really interested in lately are the switch and steam deck, simply because they’re also mobile devices.
cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
The Steam Deck is the only decent console because it’s not locked down.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
That’s because it’s not a console.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The Steam Deck is basically a PC. You can get mini PCs with APUs of a similar performance for very low prices these days. That won’t perform like a current gen console but it’s a cheap gaming machine with a huge selection of low cost games and you won’t have to pay for multiplayer.
can@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
And those mini PC’s are mobile with built-in screens and controls?
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
That would be handhelds. Mini PCs are desktop devices. They often use the same processors as handhelds and laptops, though.
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
they can be portable computers built for gaming
zerofatorial@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Are they tho? Have you seen graphics card prices?
Toneswirly@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
2060 super for 300, and then another 200 for a decent processor puts you ahead of a ps5 and for a comparable price. Games are cheaper on PC too, as well as a broader selection.
tomalley8342@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
you’re going to have to really scrunge up for deals in order to get psu, storage, memory, motherboard, and a case for your remaining budget of $0.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Ok so, for starters, your ‘reported equivalent’ source is wrong.
eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-playstation-5-p…
The APU (combined CPU + GPU, as is done in laptops) of a PS5Pro is 16.7 TFLOPs, not 33.
So your PS5 Pro is actually roughly equivalent to that posted build… by your ‘methodology’, which is utterly unclear to me, what your actual methodolgy for doing a performance comparison is.
The PS5 Pro uses 2 GB of DDR5 RAM, and 16 GB of GDDR6 RAM.
This is… wildly outside of the realm of being directly comparable to a normal desktop PC, which … bare minimum these days, has 16 GB DDR4/5 RAM, and the GDDR6 RAM would be part of the detachable GPU board itself, and would be … between 8GB … and all the way up to 32 if you get an Nvidia 5090, but consensus seems to be that 16 GB GDDR6/7 is probably what you want as a minimum, unless you want to be very reliant on AI upscaling/framegen, and the input lag and whatnot that comes with using that on an underpowered GPU.
Short version: The PS5Pro would be a wildly lopsided, nonsensical architecture to try to one to one replicate in a desktop PC… 2 GB system RAM will run lightweight linux os’s, but not a chance in hell you could run Windows 10 or 11 on that.
Fuck, even getting 7 to work with 2GB RAM would be quite a challenge… if not impossible, I think 7 required 4GB RAM minimum?
The closest AMD chip to the PS5 Pro that I see, in terms of TFLOP output… is the Radeon 7600 Mobile.
((… This is probably why Cyberpunk 2077 did not (and will never) get a ‘performance patch’ for the PS5Pro: CP77 can only pull both high (by console standards) framerates at high resolutions… and raytracing/path tracing… on Nvidia hardware, which the PS5Pro doesn’t use.))
But, lets use the PS5Pro’s ability to run CP77 at 2K60fps on … what PC players recognize as a mix of medium and high settings… as our benchmark for a comparable standard PC build. Lets be nice and just say its the high preset.
(a bunch of web searching and performance comparisons later…)
Well… actually, the problem is that basically, nobody makes or sells desktop GPUs that are so underpowered anymore, you’d have to go to the used market or find some old unpurchased stock someone has had lying around for years.
The RX 6600 in the partpicker list is fairly close in terms of GPU performance.
Maybe pair it with an AMD 5600X processor if you… can find one? Or a 4800S, which supposedly actually were just rejects/run off from the PS5 and Xbox X and S chips, rofl?
Yeah, legitimately, the problem with trying to make a PC … in 2025, to the performance specs of a PS5 Pro… is that basically the bare minimum models for current and last gen, standard PC architecture… yeah they just don’t even make hardware that weak anymore.
Psythik@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Regarding that last point: consoles don’t come with TVs either, so you don’t even have to factor that in the cost of a gaming PC.
Furthermore, many modern TVs are now being designed with gaming in mind, and thus have input lag comparable to a good gaming monitor (like LG OLEDs and most Samsungs), so the whole concept of needing a dedicated monitor just for your PC is somewhat outdated now. If your TV is good enough for console gaming, then chances are it’s good enough for PC gaming too, so long as you did your research before buying and didn’t just buy whatever had a good picture on the showroom floor.
Also there’s the fact that multiplayer tends to be free on PC, so no subscription fees to worry about. The accessories tend to be cheaper as well.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 3 weeks ago
$850 is way more expensive than a PS5 though lol. Linux also means you can’t play the games that top the most played charts on the PS5 every single month of every single year.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Works on Linux:
Prince of Persia, the Lost Crown
Silent Hill 2 (Remake)
Marvel vs Capcom: Arcade Classics
Shin Megamei Tensei (V)engeance
Persona 3 Reload
HiFi Rush
Animal Well
Castlevania Dominus Collection
Like A Dragon: Infinite Wealth
Tekken 8
The Last of Us Part II (Remaster)
Balatro
Dave the Diver
Slay the Princess: Pristine Cut
Metaphor Re Fantazio
Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree (and base game)
Does not work on Linux:
Unicorn Overlord (Console Exclusive, No PC Port Allowed by Publisher Vanillaware)
Destiny 2 (Kernel Level Anti Cheat)
FF VII Rebirth (PS Exclusive)
Astro Bot (PS Exclusive)
…
Damn, yeah, still consoles gotta hold on via exclusives, I guess?
And then there’s the mismanaged shitshow that is Destiny 2…
…who can’t figure out how to do AntiCheat without installing a rootkit on your PC, despite functional, working AntiCheats having worked on linux games for at least half a decade at this point, if not longer…
…nor can they figure out how to write a storyline that rises above 'everyone is always lore dumping instead of talking, and also they talk to you like a 10 year while doing so.
Last I heard, a whole bunch of hardcore D2 youtubers and streamers were basically all quitting out of frustration and feeling let down or betrayed by Bungie.
Psythik@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
If you’re willing to get a base model, sure. The PS5 Pro is a $700 console, and that’s not including the subscription fee for multiplayer (which doesn’t exist on PC unless you’re into MMOs).
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
You don’t need a top end card to match console specs, something like a 6650XT or 6700XT is probably enough. Your initial PC build will be more than a console by about 2X if you’re matching specs (maybe 3X if you need a monitor, keyboard, etc), but you’ll make it up with access to cheaper games and being able to upgrade the PC without replacing it, not to mention the added utiliy a PC provides.
So yeah, think of PC vs console as an investment into a platform.
If you only want to play 1-2 games, console may be a better option. But if you’re interested in older or indie games, a PC is essential.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You don’t need a graphics card. You can get mini PCs with decent gaming performance for cheap these days.
Ulrich@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
The ones with powerful GPUs cost as much as a PS5 Pro.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
DeskMini, all in all about $300. Runs almost every game in medium graphics on 3440x1440, if you don’t need stupidly high fps. This was bought 3 years ago.
YouAreLiterallyAnNPC@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
That sounds kind of like a console, no?
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 3 weeks ago
By decent you meant significantly worse than console gaming performance though.
Consoles are still the king for values in gaming, even with their increasing prices.
paraphrand@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Interesting point. Then you understand why Apple is making moves to try to be a real player in gaming.
All three of us see how gaming performance is plateauing across various hardware types to the point that a modern game can run on a wide range of hardware. With settings changes to scale across the hardware, of course.
Or are you going to be a jerk and claim it’s only mini pcs that get this benefit. Not consoles, not VR headsets, not macs, not Linux laptops.
There really is a situation going on where there is is large body of hardware in a similar place on the performance curve in a way that wasn’t always true in the past when major performance gains were made every few years. When various platforms were on very different and less interoperable hardware architectures, etc.
The Steam Deck’s success proves my point, and your point alone.
chunes@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Can confirm. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you mostly play indie games, though.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
My 4070 cost $300 and runs everything.
The whole PC cost around $1000, and i have had it since the Xbox One released.
You can get similar performance from a $400 steam deck which is a computer.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
On what planet does a Steam Deck give 4070 performance?
And on which does a 4070 cost $300 for that matter? They cost more than a whole PS5.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I took a gamble and bought used from Ebay cuz I saw the deal on user benchmark and it’s been working great so far.
If you have a card you want search it on there and sometimes you can get some great finds.
www.userbenchmark.com
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
I can get ps5 graphics with a $280 video card, games are often way cheaper, I can hook the pc up to my TV, and still play with a ps5 or Xbox controller, or mouse and keyboard.
I suspect next gen there will be a ps6 and Xbox will make a cheap cloud gaming box and just go subscription only.
Nikelui@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Didn’t Google Stadia do the cloud thing and failed miserably?
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
Microsofts cloud gaming is already profitable. Also, they got their ass kicked so badly against the ps5 that there’s no profitable avenue in developing and trying to sell a future console. They’re better off concentrating on pc games and cloud gaming. Sony can’t really compete against them in that market, just like microsoft is unlikely to make it worth while to compete against Sony in a console.
Robust_Mirror@aussie.zone 3 weeks ago
The internet isn’t good enough globally to do that, and still won’t be by 2030 after the ps6/nextbox is out. Maybe the gen after next. But even then, there’s a lot of countries I could see still being patchy. Right now in Australia, Sony won’t even let you access the PS3 streaming games because they know it won’t work well enough.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
You overestimate how much Microsoft would care about people with bad internet. They’ll opt for smaller numbers paying a subscription per month/year on cheap hardware. No point in losing money against Sony directly.