Comment on EU fines Apple $568m for deterring third-party payment methods on App Store

chiliedogg@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• benny@reddthat.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Steam reduced their cut to 20% for the biggest publishers, let’s see any of the others do that. They also allow other stores on the steam deck. They also allow steam keys and shouldn’t demand MFN pricing.

  Their cut is worth it to users for the same reasons as an iOS and Android user might say, except when it comes to switching platforms, your steam games can come with you to rival platforms and not just friendly ones.

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  • chiliedogg@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Epic charges 12%, but they’re somehow the villain.

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    • benny@reddthat.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Not really, they’re the villain for doing exclusives. Steam never did exclusives, they offered their own games on consoles even when the store was in it’s infancy.

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      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        That’s exactly what Steam Greenlight was before they stopped all curation of games.

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• HeavyRaptor@lemmy.zip ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The difference is availability of choice. On apple phones, Xbox, Nintendo, and PlayStation you are locked into a single source of software. On a PC there are myriad of game stores you can choose from. Sometimes you can even buy the software directly from the developer. Usually people are upset when this choice is taken away (for example epic exclusive games). Nobody would bat an eye if a developer offered their game on epic or their own platform with a ~20% discount compared to steam. But it is up to the developers to make their game available on any of the PC game stores.

  In conclusion, steam is not a platform holder, they could charge whatever they wanted. If the markup was too high, you could simply choose to buy your games elsewhere. For most people, this 30% is worth it for the features and buyer protection that steam offers compared to other platforms.

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• TORFdot0@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I get why people like steam. But as a steam hater, if GabeN ever dies and the kids or whoever is heirs are decide to sell to VCs or private equity. That 30% will be just as oppressive as anyone else’s.

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• rbits@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I agree that the 30% cut is too much. The only reason I give them a pass is because Steam is really good (at least, as a user)

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  • barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    For a dev those 30% are very much worth it because Steam has tons of customers and very good recommendation algorithms, you gain more in additional sales than what you lose from the cut. Could they do with less probably but they’re not extorting devs. There’s a reason why Epic had to do stuff like guarantee sales and provide huge advances to get anyone onto their excuse for a platform.

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• TheBat@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’d like to see a game developer chiming in but as a user, 30% cut by Steam feels justified.

  They have helped me discover and buy many games that I wouldn’t have even heard of otherwise. Compare that to Google Play Store which is full of dogshit shovelware and Pay2Win games.

  And sometimes I’ve even bought Steam keys via Fanatical bundles, where I chose which games to buy by looking at their Steam store pages. Steam got nothing from these transactions as far as I know.

  This is without getting into other useful stuff like guides and forums hosted by Steam which I can look at whenever I get stuck. Or Steam workshop which allows users to easily mod the games.

  Call me a fanboy but I’m tired of this ‘what about Steam’ comments.

  Ask Sony, Microsoft, Google, and Nintendo to improve their stores instead.

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  • REDACTED@infosec.pub ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Fair, but there is an argument to be made about how hosting things are now cheaper than ever, by a huge margin. When 1GB used to cost 1 dollar, they had 30% cut. Now when that’s 0.01 not 1, 100x the difference (while games have gotten like what, 10x bigger?), it’s still 30%.

    But you know what is the most damning argument against their cut? Steam earns more money per employee than next 3 companies combined and Gabe is buying fleet of yachts and multiple submarines, not even getting into real estate, while indie devs are going broke one after another. That cut might make a major difference for devs, but at this point Gabe has already too much money and won’t suffer from having less of it

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    • TheBat@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I mentioned few other things beside hosting though. The discovery algorithm, for example.

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  • notgold@aussie.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    100% this. At least epic tried to make a value proposition for developers but developers can just make more from steam. Having said that, steam/valve had a hand in the always online gaming situation which we have all just come to accept. I buy from Gog where I can

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• rottingleaf@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Steam is not the only means of distribution anywhere, and you can often buy the same game both from Steam and directly.

  It’s too early to hate it.

  (Well, I mean, I want a FreeBSD native Steam client with native Proton and all infrastructure, but I can understand that it’s a small percentage, even if not that different from Linux support.)

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• kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It would be more comparable if Apple, Microsoft (Xbox), Nintendo, or Sony allowed anyone to make a third party game launcher but they just keep sucking.

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• Cossty@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Steam’s 30% is the last of their problems, I would like them to finally start actually moderating Steam forums. Because devs of the particular game usually don’t care. Visit some forums of newly released popular game and it’s full of bigots, misogyny, trolls and hate. It’s unbelievable.

  Go check oblivion remastered

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  • MITM0@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Bigots, Misogyny, Trolls & Hate is translation for I want people censored because I am on a power-trip

    Good one mate, because I have been there.

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    • Cossty@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Oh shit, one of those losers is here.

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• Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  You get value from Steam for paying that.

  What value do you get from Apple for paying the Apple tax? A higher peice for a phone that could cost 500€ less?

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  • semperverus@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    As a Linux gamer, valve making proton has launched gaming on linux into the stratosphere.

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  • TORFdot0@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    What exactly is the value that steam provides with its 30% cut that Apple doesn’t provide? Not defending Apple by the way.

    Openness of the hardware is a valid point but that isn’t exactly a feature of steam (nor a distinction between the other platforms in OPs comment)

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    • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Apple forces me to stay there.
      Valve offers me to stay there. The whole market and review system is incredibly important as I can see if it’s even worth it to buy. Where else can you see reviews besides comparing numerous comments under video reviews?

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      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        If you delete your steam account or decide you no longer want to ise their login/launcher or Valve decides to ban you, what happens to all your past purchases?

        You’re locked in. You just have Stockholm Syndrome for the company that started the online requirement bullshit everything has today by locking Half-Life 2 behind a mandatory online service, then letting other devs force the same bullshit instead of just loading up a disc and playing the game.

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  • ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You get value from Steam for paying that

    Are you crazy? You know how much money that is? And this isn’t taken from the distributors cut we get higher 30% prices because of it.

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    • Kaiserschmarrn@feddit.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Do you have any example for this? Because in my experience, games on Steam cost literally the same amount than anywhere else and sometimes are even a bit cheaper than that.

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      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        That’s part of the problem. If they charged the same to developers as Epic, I wouldn’t be so critical.

        For games primarily sold through Steam, Steam is often the most expensive part of the game. Is it okay that Steam’s take is higher than that of all the actual developers combined?

        Have you ever played a game that was actually worth playing and thought that the fucking storefront and game launcher were worth 30% of the game?

        Have you played a bunch of half-baked PC ports that could’ve used a bit more money on finishing the game?

        Developers decide to launch as-is partpy because they know Steam will be taking a massive cut and there will be no ROI for fixing the game.

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• lengau@midwest.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’m less mad at Steam and Google because there are clear, simple ways to avoid their cuts.

  I have no basis to say whether they’re providing a service worth the 30% charge. I’m also less mad at Steam than at Google because they’re being less shady about trying to push people into their store too.

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• Kecessa@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  “Eat the rich!”

  “Including Gabe?”

  “Woooow there cowboy!”

  I hate the idiocy.

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  • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Gaben is a hardcore libertarian as well. And owns a billion dollar armada of yachts.

    No he’s one of the good ones /s

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    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Valve’s response to George Floyd was to give each employee a certain amount of money and let them choose which charity to give it to (if they did give it to charity), which means they could just add well give it to an any BLM movement if they wanted to.

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• Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I hate it 🙂

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• oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Steam gets a pass because they actually offer buyer protection, refunds if it doesn’t work, refunds under certain requirements which can be waved under certain circumstances, removal of day one season passes, refunds for dlc that gets delayed too long for example.

  If an actual competitor gave a shit about things that matter to actual players than they have a shot. Epic Game Store is a joke because no one wants a store that only focuses on what corporations want. GOG is good but just doesn’t market itself well, seriously outside of launching CDPR games I don’t see it at all.

  Getting companies to offer their games on platforms that offer a higher margin is easy. Getting players over to a platform that offers less protections and features is not going to happen.

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  • Eggyhead@lemmings.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I was denied a refund for a broken game on Steam Deck just last winter. I had never played or even installed it, but I had purchased it and let it sit in my backlog too long before trying.

    By comparison, I can’t recall a single time I’ve been denied a refund request from the iPhone App Store. They’ve also never sold me software that couldn’t run on the hardware they also sold me.

    I understand how it’s my fault according to steam’s ToS, but it still doesn’t seem right to me.

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    • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      When you ask for a refund under Steam’s 2h/14d policy, it’s Steam offering the refund. Past that, the request is passed on the developer

      At least that’s how I’ve heard it described, idk for sure

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      • Eggyhead@lemmings.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Yeah I wasn’t entirely familiar and it’s not anything I got upset over (again, my fault). It’s just weird because they know I never installed or played it until I asked for the refund. The game was the Grandia HD Remasters. It didn’t even occur to me to scrutinize compatibility on Deck when I bought it because it’s just a 2D JRPG from the PS1 era that supposed had been modernized.

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    GOG is good but just doesn’t market itself well

    GOG’s biggest problem is also their greatest asset: no DRM.

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• gray@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Steam isn’t a monopoly.

  The PC is an open platform, you can use any game store or launcher you want - unlike the iPhone, Android (without sideloading), PlayStation, switch, or Xbox.

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  • 7arakun@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah the comments about Steam being a monopoly are weird to me. Steam has a huge market share, but they don’t own the whole market and they don’t try to prevent you from buying your games elsewhere. Proton even works on non-steam games. I’ve used it to play WoW private servers on Linux.

    If Valve isn’t a pro-consumer company, then I don’t know what company could possibly fit the criteria. They’re not perfect, but they’ve earned the trust they have. I’ll trust Valve until they give me a reason not to.

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  • chiliedogg@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    My Samsung phone comes with an alternative android app store pre-installed.

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    • jaschen@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Ya, but I also installed fdroid pretty easily without the system blocking me.

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• death@infosec.pub ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Perhaps that’s because Steam doesn’t seem to be trying very hard to “lock in” developers to their platform. Devs are free to sell their PC games on Gog or Epic or whatever. Steam is popular because it’s a good platform. This freedom for developers or customers mostly does not exist on mobile or on consoles, except for the EUs efforts here.

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  • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    When you’re in a monopolistic position you don’t need to do much for people to decide to sell in your store instead of going for alternatives, who would have thought?

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You could say the same about Google.

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    • pycorax@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The same Google that’s been constantly trying to add features that deter 3rd party app stores?

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Such as?

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  • BigDiction@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah it’s arguable that Steam is a monopoly but somehow billion dollar publishers can’t create a store to sell their own products without fucking it up with annoying bullshit. Pay the 30% to protect you from yourselves.

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    • lengau@midwest.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yeah, Steam is pretty much a monopoly. But I haven’t seen what I’d call monopolistic practices from them. It’s just that everyone else appears to fall flat on their faces when trying to make a competing product.

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      • TORFdot0@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Valve is a private company owned by someone who is passionate about games and so unlike other companies with investors, they leave short term money on the table to make the best product for gamers. If its ownership model ever changes it will speedrun enshittification for the same reason other storefronts suck

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      • CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        It’s weird because steam isn’t even that amazing at what it does and even some of the features I like can be tempremental or downright buggy at times.

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  • rikudou@lemmings.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Steam is equally shitty, they just have the advantage of not being publicly traded which means they can create long term strategies and execute them successfully.

    Doesn’t mean they’re pro consumer.

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    • SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Would not say equally shitty, otherwise they won’t have popular support they do.

      You are correct however that they are not pro consumer.

      They are just a smarter, wiser business with a sustainable business model that understands the importance of consumer trust.

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      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        You’ll find people supporting plenty of shitty things. I could point 70m of those people in the US!

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• dwazou@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Microsoft, Apple, Meta, Google, and Saudi Aramco are some of the most powerful corporations in the world.

  They are empires that are more powerful than some nations.

  It’s healthy to scrutinize them

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