Comment on ChatGPT spends 'tens of millions of dollars' on people saying 'please' and 'thank you', but Sam Altman says it's worth it

• Dindonmasker@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Respecting your tools is a pretty fundamental thing to learn. Whatever that respect looks like for one tool or another.

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Absolutely. But respect looks a lot different for each type of tool. For example:

    • use it for its intended purpose - e.g. don’t use a hammer to break up rocks, that’ll just break your hammer
    • maintain it - lube mechanical parts, clean anything that interacts with dirt, etc
    • replace when worn
    • keep tools organized

    Thanking my hammer isn’t showing respect, putting it away when I’m done and using it only for intended uses does.

    For an LLM, showing it respect is keeping queries direct so it doesn’t spend unnecessary resources trying to understand what you want. Thanking it does absolutely nothing.

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    • Dindonmasker@sh.itjust.works ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I agree. That’s why i personnally stopped using queries just to thank it but i don’t know what the absolute best practice is when it comes to LLms.

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  • LammaLemma@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Agree… and this should extend to resources as well. Not respecting nature has led us to this path. If anthropomorphizing the tools and resources helps then so be it. Humans are dumb as nut as storytelling, storybooks , and anthropomorphizing and such is the most effective way to make em understand.

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  • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    This absolute loon is asking permission from his tools

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    • Dindonmasker@sh.itjust.works ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      You are confusing consent with respect. Respect can be being afraid to put your fingers where they might get cut even after using a machine for 30 years. The moment you lose that fear and start doing whatever you want with the machine is when the troubles start. Respect can also be oiling a tool that needs to be for better longevity instead of leaving them full of rust at the bottom of the toolbox.

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  • thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    but dont anthropomorphize your tools. And it’s odd when someone does.

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    • My_IFAKs___gone@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Hey, whatever heuristic works for helping people show and feel respect for their environment and the things in it is good in my book. If you’re capable of respecting others in your space without needing to be polite to your inanimate tools, then good on you. Not everyone is like that and if it helps someone feel peace with their surroundings to imagine everything around them has some kind of soul or feelings worthy of consideration, then I’ll take that, too.

      Of course, there are limits to everything and if a tool irreparably breaks, hopefully someone is able to discard it accordingly. Pathological hoarding of useless objects is a thing, too, after all.

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    • blind3rdeye@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      People don’t usually interact with a hammer by talking to it. They interact by holding it, placing it, hammering with it. Respect for a hammer (or similar tool) would be based around those kinds of actions.

      Whereas people do interact with a chatbot by talking to it. So then respect for a chatbot would be built around what is said.

      People can show respect for a hammer, a house, a dinner prepared by their spouse, their spouse, a chatbot, etc… but respect for each of those things will look a bit different.

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• ImmersiveMatthew@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  What do you believe the danger is?

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• CileTheSane@lemmy.ca ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I thank my car when it alerts me that I left the lights on or my keys in the ignition. I’m not anthropomorphizing my car, I’m practicing appreciation for the benefits my tools provide.

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  • thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    you thank your car?

    whatever floats your boat but I think we both know you are just being contrarian now

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    • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I open my door, the warning goes off, and I say “thank you car.” It’s better for me mental well being than saying “oh fuck.”

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• Taleya@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Kondo literally has you thanking items for their service as a way to uncouple and declutter. “Humans will pack bond with anything” is a trope for a reason.

  It’s about your humanity, not the machine’s

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    The purpose for Marie Kondo is to alleviate the guilt for getting rid of a thing you liked at one point. If you thank it, you’re essentially convincing yourself that it has fulfilled its purpose and so there’s no guilt in discarding it.

    LLMs don’t fit into that. What purpose could thanking it possibly have other than anthropomorphizing it? If you’re trying to break your attachment to an LLM, sure, thank it for the time you spent with it so you can let it go. But thanking it for providing an answer is just silly.

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  • thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Anthropomorphic Fallacy

    psychology.tips/anthropomorphic-fallacy/

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    • Taleya@aussie.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      No one’s assigning emotive states here dude

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• Occultist0178@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  But the interaction is different. I have a simple example, would you be upset if you see some people beat up a chair? Probably no, but if you see people beat up something that moves, talks and behaves like a person or an animal you might get upset. Both are just things, but the interaction is still different. So we should teach our kids to be kind in interactions with live line things so that they behave properly when interacting with people. That’s at least how I see it 🤷‍♂️

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    would you be upset if you see some people beat up a chair?

    I do. Breaking something just because you’re upset is counter-productive and just creates waste, so it frustrates me.

    I also think being polite to an LLM is stupid and wasteful. Just be direct about what you need a response to and move on. Don’t be rude (that’s also counter-productive), just be direct. For example, “What’s the capital of Bulgaria?” instead of, “If you could be so kind, could you look up the capital of Bulgaria for me please? Thank you!” Using a tool efficiently is a way of showing it some level of respect.

    Tools are tools. Use and maintain them properly, and then move on to the next task.

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  • thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I see people beat up their things all the time without getting upset

    I don’t really care when someone smashes the door closed of their car

    or smashes their keyboard in frustration or tosses a pen that doesn’t work right

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    • My_IFAKs___gone@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Perhaps you should feel concern for that person, because they’re resorting to violence to cope with their feelings of frustration. We’ve all done it and in my own experience, I don’t think I’ve ever come back to my senses feeling satisfaction that I had lost control. I usually feel some shame for the destruction I caused.

      Here is the problem: When you spend time thumping an inanimate object, like a pillow, or beating nonliving things in a rage room, you are conditioning yourself to quickly become aggressive next time your anxiety levels rise. So instead of opening up the escape valve on a pot of steam, you are rewarding your distressed feelings with the instant and ephemeral pleasure that comes from throwing dishes against a wall.

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• Randomgal@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Yes. I teach them to respect their tools and the objects they use. So you just treat everything as disposable?

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• nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I’d argue that showing disdain, aggression, and disrespect in communication with AI/LLM things is more likely to be dangerous as one is conditioning themselves to be disdainful, aggressive, and disrespectful when communicating with the same methods used to communicate with other people. Our brains do a great job at association, so, it’s basically just training oneself to be an asshole.

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  • thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    why are you arguing that at me? I just argued that its not a human, AI is a tool and should be treated as such. If my tool sucks, I will tell it so and quit using it. If my tool is great, I will use it to the best of my ability and respect its functionality.

    everyone else here is making scarecrow arguments because I just don’t think it needs to be anthropomorphized. The link speaks about “tens of millions of dollars” wasted on computing please and thank you

    that is fucking stupid behavior

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    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Exactly!

      I’m a parent, and I set a good example by being incredibly respectful to people, whether it’s the cashier at the grocery store, their teacher at school, or a police officer. I show the same respect because I’m talking to a person.

      When I’m talking to a machine, I’m direct without any respect because the goal is to clearly indicate intent. “Alexa play <song>” or “Hey Google, what’s <query>?” They’re tools, and there is zero value in being polite to a machine, it just adds more chances for the machine to misinterpret me.

      Kids are capable of understanding that you act differently in different situations. They’re super respectful to their teachers, they don’t bother with that w/ their peers, and us as parents are somewhere in between. I don’t want my kids to associate AI/LLMs more with their teachers than their pencils. They’re tools, and their purpose is to be used efficiently.

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    • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      If my tool sucks, I will tell it so

      So thanking your tools: dangerous on a humanity level scale

      Telling your tool it sucks: Normal behaviour

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• monkeyman512@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I don’t think it’s about anthropomorphizing the tool, it’s about expressing appreciation for the tool. Showing appreciation to a wrench may being as simple as making sure that you clean, oil, and properly put it away when your done using it. The tool is not a conscious entity, but the mindset of appreciation will make you more likely to properly care for the object resulting it being useful to you for longer.

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• Opinionhaver@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  People used to talk about slaves in exactly the same way.

  Our AI assistants might not be conscious yet, but there’s a good chance they will be someday. Treating them with basic decency from the start just seems like the right thing to do. The way I talk to ChatGPT isn’t all that different from how I talk to people - and I don’t feel the need to switch modes just because I’ve rationalized that something isn’t deserving of respect.

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  • WhiteBurrito@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I agree, people make it out like we’re giving human rights to unconscious AI… I’m just saying thanks because I’m polite to anyone and anything easy as that

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• Pirata@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Lol.

  Lmao even.

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