The second ads are required the customer stops being the users and starts being the advertisers. This starts the enshittification snowball.
Comment on Mastodon is Rewinding the Clock on Social Media — in a Good Way
Izzy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Put it simply I just hate ads. Anything that puts in ads is terrible. Including Sync for Lemmy who seems to have completely missed the point of getting the hell away from Reddit.
Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 1 year ago
wahming@monyet.cc 1 year ago
It’s a good thing you have the option to pay to remove ads and stay the customer, then
MrLuemasG@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Legit. I paid $3 for Sync back in 2014 and used it daily for nine years.
wahming@monyet.cc 1 year ago
When’s the last time you developed and released a full fledged software project for free?
veloxization@yiffit.net 1 year ago
[deleted]PurplePropagule@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Lemmy has gotten quite a bit of money in grants. It’s safe to say that without the grants allowing the lemmy devs to work on it full time, it wouldn’t be as functional as it is now. Getting grants really isn’t easy and that shouldn’t be the barrier to whether or not you can be compensated for your work.
wahming@monyet.cc 1 year ago
I am not opposed to developers funding their projects with ads
Doesn’t sound like it from your initial statement
Izzy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you are suggesting ads are the only way to fund software then you are mistaken. For example you can sell it for money to consumers.
Hexagon@feddit.it 1 year ago
Wrong. The next terrible thing is mass-AI-generated propaganda and disinformation. Like in the “dead internet” theory
OpenStars@kbin.social 1 year ago
Next? I think you misspelled "current":-D
Hexagon@feddit.it 1 year ago
My bad. But I think we haven’t seen the full extent of it yet
OpenStars@kbin.social 1 year ago
Tbf, it seems like the current "mass-AI-generated propaganda and disinformation" has actual humans behind it i.e. state-sponsored disinformation as part of modern warfare, as opposed to just sheer random BS pooped out of an algorithm designed to maximize short-term profits for the person trying to use enough buzzwords to get their algorithm bought out by someone dumb enough to fall for their pitch and short-sighted enough to not realize the wider implications... or worse yet, if they realize, who simply does not care.
It reminds me of the story behind the USA tax preparation software companies who intentionally went on a campaign to confuse military veterans and students (seriously!? what kind of evil mfers...!?), and while they got caught and even punished & fined, it was something like a decade later and ofc the original CEO and also the next one etc. had long since received their fat bonus checks, leaving the company holding the bag (liability). Thus it was "a smart move", so long as you entirely disregard ethics. What was presented as a "free gift", to generate good PR for the company, was in reality predating upon people that they deemed would be highly trusting or at least minimally likely to sue them... and they were correct. Now, watching interviews of these tech-bros, I get the same vibe as in like who cares so long as I get mine.
sparr@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Web of trust solves this problem, until people start intentionally trusting AIs as much as they do other humans, at which point it’s no longer a problem.
vonbaronhans@midwest.social 1 year ago
I just paid the one time fee for no ads. Works for me.
kratoz29@lemm.ee 1 year ago
This is only FOSS bros making a bigger deal than it should, I like FOSS I use FOSS but they need to chill a bit.
Geert@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Seriously
Geert@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It would suck if Sync was the only option but it’s not. Nobody forces you to use it. You have such a hateboner for Sync it’s ridiculous. So the guy asks money for his work, who fucking cares.
Izzy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It just happens to be a great demonstration that there can be no exceptions to eliminating ads. People seem to agree that ads are bad, but then have no principles or conviction when presented with the slightest inconvenience. “Guy just needs money” is not a good enough reason to change my opinion to ads are actually good. I’m not sorry. This has nothing to do with Sync or this person in particular.
It’s just the ad driven business model as a whole.
Geert@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I am now very sure you are young and naive.
“Guy needs money” … for the time invested in providing something that is optional and you are free not to use.
You don’t like apps with ads than don’t.
Izzy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I give a simple personal opinion that ads are bad and people start losing their minds. You are arguing with my opinion like you can persuade me that ads are good as objective fact. You can view as many ads as you wish, but that isn’t going to change how I feel about it.
te_abstract_art@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I hate ads too, but devs have to eat so why should we not pay them when we use an app or service they spend countless time making and maintaining?
Sync is a one-time payment of £17.99 / $20 to remove ads and for the amount I’ll be using this app, I think that’s absolutely fair. I’ll spend more on one takeaway pizza on a Friday night.
kratoz29@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Including Sync for Lemmy who seems to have completely missed the point of getting the hell away from Reddit.
If there is one reason to support ads, only one reason, is for using Sync for Lemmy.
Izzy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
What allows this particular piece of software to implement an egregious dark pattern and have it be ok?
kratoz29@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Because although it is in a very early state compared with Sync for Reddit it is also a great product.
I use Sync for Lemmy, Voyager and Summit and overall I think Summit is a better client as of now, but Sync doesn’t fall too far away.
What dark pattern for real lol, we users asked for it, the dev didn’t even care nor know about Lemmy if it wasn’t for us, he listened and now he is present around here with a very competent client.
Would the world be better for you if Sync ceased to exist LMAO.
ljdawson@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Anything in particular I’m missing with sync?
Izzy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The amount the world would be better if Syncs ads didn’t exist would be negligibly minuscule to be sure, but it would be better. Every time someone was displayed an ad it made the world just a tiny bit worse. Even if it is the equivalent of a grain of sand on the beach. Perhaps overall there was a net positive, but my only point is that ads are bad and only doing it a little bit doesn’t mean it is good.
Like killing one person to save 10 doesn’t mean killing one person was good in of itself. The stakes are obviously quite low in the case of ads in this particular piece of software, but I still don’t agree with it on principle. If all ads on the internet were eliminated then the whole experience would be greatly improved.
MrLuemasG@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We have different reasons for getting the hell away from reddit. I came to lemmy because reddit killed sync. I paid like $3 for Sync in 2014 and used it every day until Reddit killed it without seeing a single ad. So, not only do I disagree with Sync for Lemmy missing the point of getting away with reddit, but I also disagree with the notion that sink for Lemmy is in any way bad for having an ad - supported tier when you can pay a negligible amount of money ( $20 in 2023 ) and never see an ad again for the entire lifetime of the app.
Psythik@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Sync is garbage. I’ve tried every Lemmy app and settled on Voyager. It’s no Relay bit it’s one of the most developed Lemmy apps available.
wahming@monyet.cc 1 year ago
AFAIK pretty much all the lemmy apps are decent. There’s no reason to bash on any of them just because it’s not your preference
jballs@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Are there ads on Sync? I’ve been using it exclusively for the last week or so and haven’t seen a single one.
MrLuemasG@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’ve been using Sync for Lemmy since it was first released and I still haven’t seen an ad. I’m pretty sure it’s a bug.
Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Bad content feels much much worse to me. E.g it is so infuriating to see those fake prank videos with tons of likes and positive comments. It kills my hope in humanity every time… At least an ad could be for some interesting legit product. 🫠
mesamunefire@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Jerobi is great.
kratoz29@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Pretty much all the Lemmy clients for Android are great, and I think the iOS clients are very competent too.
emptyother@programming.dev 1 year ago
I disagree. I hate ads with a passion too. But as long as we can pay a sum to remove it, it is fair to have a free option with ads. A kinda unlimited “demo”.
We are fools for thinking anyone would give away their own time and effort for free forever. We have completely lost the perspective of how much things should cost because of how much we’ve taken for granted that was paid for with our personal data. And the biggest fools is those who think most software developers and server admins can live reliably on donations alone.
Though Youtube is taking the ads a bit far, maybe. One shouldn’t scare away users before they have even become customers.
ryncewynd@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Absolutely agree with your comment.
I don’t really know the solution either… I can’t afford to pay for all the things I enjoy online.
I was considering supporting 1 Twitch streamer I enjoy until I saw subscription cost. And if I paid that for every streamer or YouTuber I enjoy, I’d be broke in a single day lol.
I get so much incredibly good info and discussions online about my hobbies, all for no charge.
I used to subscribe on Patreon to my most useful resources/people, but in the end I just could afford it and had to cancel all my Patreon
I hate ads but I don’t understand how the internet would function without ads. No one could afford it
emptyother@programming.dev 1 year ago
Yeah, I’m not rich enough to pay for every site and service either. A site like rockpapershotgun I left when it paywalled most of its contents, it wasn’t important enough to me to pay for. I’ve never paid for reddit, but i probably should have by how much i used it. Not that I will do that after what they’ve pulled lately. I donate to a fediverse server to put my money where my mouth is and at least pay for what I want to keep alive.
Izzy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It would take some adjustment, but ads and data harvesting are the core problem to the enshiftification of the entire internet. You can’t have it both ways. We have this endless game of cat and mouse where we keep moving to the next platform after the last one becomes unusable due to ads and data harvesting.
You have to draw the line somewhere to end this pointless cycle and it is either pay for software and services or have people do only what they want to when they want to (FOSS). It really doesn’t cost that much if it isn’t attempting to compete with other software that grew with ad and data harvesting money.
ryncewynd@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think you’re wildly underestimating the cost of people’s time, resources, infrastructure etc
“You can’t have it both ways” is exactly right. If the internet was user funded, as in, the user subscribes to every website or internet service they wish to use, then the internet would probably stop existing. (maybe I’m being too dramatic but also maybe not)
What’s the true cost of YouTube without ads or data harvesting? Probably only the rich could afford a subscription, which in turn would destroy the platform user base.
Geert@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s not because Lemmy is FOSS it doesn’t cost any money. Infrastructure costs and the time invested by those that help the fediverse grow is a cost too. Be it the time invested by the people running instances or those writing custom ui’s, tools and yes even Lemmy apps. And if some people prefer to be compensated what’s wrong with that? You think the Lemmy devs are doing it for free?
TheRaven@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Agreed, but even if free ad tiers exist, web trackers have to also exist to track everything you do, just in case you use the ad tier again.
Privacy shouldn’t be something unaffordable.
Izzy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I disagree. Paying to remove ads is one of the core problems with ads. If the only way to develop your software is either to frustrate them enough to pay to remove ads or have ads then your software shouldn’t exist. You don’t get to do something bad just because there is an option to pay them to stop doing that bad thing. That doesn’t make it right. The whole concept is basically like a really mild protection racket.
Neve8028@lemm.ee 1 year ago
This is such an unbelievably naive take. People’s time is worth something. Relying just on donations from a small percentage of users here and there is not going to cut it for someone who is developing the software full time.
Geert@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No, can’t you see? There is no way to enjoy Lemmy without Sync.
Marsupial@quokk.au 1 year ago
Um Linux and FOSS, kinda show you wrong in that many people are happy to see others use their work for feee.
We are fools for thinking capitalist solutions are the solutions we need.
offspec@lemmy.nicknakin.com 1 year ago
Major Linux contributors are payed by their employers to work on the kernel.
Geert@lemmy.world 1 year ago
So you really believe that FOSS is only developed by people doing this for free. Not saying there are no hobby projects developed by people in their free time but thinking that is how it works is pretty dumb. Postgresql, Mozilla, various Linux distributions providing “business solutions” - hell, even the Lemmy developers are funded.
You are a fool if you think all Foss developers are anticapitalist idealists.