Comment on Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu says he and Donald Trump 'see eye to eye' on Iran

Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• brucethemoose@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  To be fair, I’m not sure every single Palestine supporter in the US could have tipped the vote.

  I know there are communities in PA and such, but still…

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  • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    They’re part of a wide community that saw a bunch of messaging about how “I will NEVER vote for Kamala Harris because (reason), I just feel like (thought-terminating cliche)”, and got suckered by it. It happened that the reason was “Palestine” and the thought-terminating cliche was, “genocide is a red line for me” or one of the other flavors. I think you’re right that the Palestine audience was pretty small, but the total of all the audiences was absolutely massive. I think that was what cost Harris the election. They just know how to do manipulation of the public on a whole new level.

    The messaging was even often contradictory depending on the audience being spoken to. She enabled a genocide, and she betrayed Israel, and she’s soft on crime and crime is everywhere, and she’s a cop who locked up black men for possession of a joint, and she’s even more cruel than Trump on immigration, and she wants to wreck our country with open borders, and she ruined the economy.

    Only a tiny fraction of it was ever true, but if you’re the target audience for some piece of it, and got exposed to the messaging every day, it starts to sink in. It’ll resonate with you.

    The one thing that’s darkly comic about this whole situation is that Netanyahu hasn’t yet realized what a terrible partner Trump is for anything. He’s going to rush into a full-scale war with Iran, and then ask Trump to be sending all the aircraft carriers and weapons and doing all the agonized diplomacy Biden has been doing for him that always shields him from consequences, basically try to guilt trip the US into winning the war for him. And someday, instead of doing that, Trump’s going to say, “I tried but they wanted me to put it in writing or something, I don’t know, this is hard” and stop returning his calls.

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    • lemonmelon@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      The part that still baffles me is the whiplash message-swap from “she didn’t cater to us, so she lost” to “well, there aren’t enough of us to make a difference.”

      Also of note is the trend towards “I voted for her, but I didn’t like it” in spaces that I clearly remember seeing full of advocates of voting third party or abstaining. Someone should maybe check to see if all of these mysterious new votes were counted!

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      • WanderingVentra@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        They’re different people arguing different things lol. The truth is there are a lot of people who want to be heard, so they play up Harris not listening to them and losing because of it. The truth is probably more depressing in that it didn’t matter.

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    • Minarble@aussie.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Are you saying that Trump will abandon the Israel just like he abandoned the Kurds when it suited him, right when it mattered the most to them after being staunch allies of the US?

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      • hitmyspot@aussie.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        He doesn’t abandon them. He was never with them. He is only for himself and expects loyalty but never offers it.

        It’s crazy how many people have been suckered in with the hope of riches, only to have their lives destroyed.

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  • themeatbridge@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    There are absolutely more Jewish voters in PA than there are people who abstained in protest over the Palestinian genocide. Michigan has a more concentrated Arab population, but you’re right that they aren’t why Harris lost.

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    • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      I mean, Liberals have literally no evidence whatsoever that Palestine abstainers would have made a dent in the 10-15 million votes needed to win, yet that hasn’t stopped them from blaming the left in every thread.

      I’d be willing to bet that stating “the economy is doing great” while tens of millions of people are significantly poorer than they were 4 years ago was more to blame than anything. People are fed up and want revolutionary change.

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• Zagorath@aussie.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  No idea how many abstained, or of those that abstained, how many did so because of the Biden/Harris administration’s support for the ongoing genocide.

  But 3rd party? Even if 100% of the third party votes —even those who voted Libertarian or for that antivax nutter, who probably would have leaned Trump before Harris in reality anyway—had instead gone to Harris, Trump still would have won both the EC and the popular vote. 3rd party votes probably were a deciding factor in 2016 and they were definitely a deciding factor in 2000. But not this time.

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  • Cethin@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I saw a chart about a poll on this. Supposedly, if the data was correct, almost every swing state would have gone for Harris if people who said they didn’t vote because of this issue had voted. Pretty much every poll this cycle was not accurate, so I don’t put that much faith in that one either.

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• Breezy@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  This is the fucking problem with the left. Instead of bitching and moaning to the disenfranchised people, either go complain to the leaders or do something else to make a difference. All this in fighting and acting better then others is why we lost.

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• Xavienth@lemmygrad.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  See, this is the problem with liberals. Kamala made absolutely no indication she would check Israel’s aggression. It’s wishful thinking based on no evidence. But she lost so she can be whatever liberals want now, she’s full of endless possibilities.

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• Cube6392@beehaw.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  or better yet. get active. we’re out here pushing counter propaganda in the streets and we don’t see you out here, people for whom Harris wasn’t good enough. we’re doing the work outlined in all that theory you tell us to read, but we don’t see you out here. it makes me think that crowd never understood what we were trying to do. for thousands of years our ancestors have passed down to us stories about charismatic authoritarians tricking people into believing a prior story of liberation grants them the mandate of heaven to take control and kill the non-believers and now in your religious furor to stick to karl marx’s story you are missing the bigger picture. the people gaining power interpret the book of revelations literally. they think they have to all gather for a big final battle to the death. they ignore that core to the story of revelations is an antichrist who doesn’t believe any of the things christ taught but uses charisma to wipe out the minority of good christians who kept to the teachings of christ who achieve eternal presence in the kingdom of heaven.

  i read this story differently. to me, i think about what christians were experiencing at the time. they were having a genocide enacted against them. the romans were killing and torturing this radically egalitarian religion as it existed at the time. they justified this killing through religious means to the people. revelations is an instruction manual about how to recognize and resist authoritarianism. one that people consistently use to justify authoritarianism. it’s the absolute cruelest joke in the world.

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