We need a list of products we can buy without worrying about telemetry or advertising.

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨gif8287@lemmy.ml⁩ to ⁨selfhosted@lemmy.world⁩

It is so difficult to find modern electronics without telemetry and ads. Smartphones, laptops, TVs, home routers, security cameras, cars, game consoles, e-readers, projectors, 3D printers, fitness trackers, speakers, and even some printers. Why can’t customers be free from this data collection and advertising? It’s not that we don’t care about it. There simply aren’t many alternatives, and the few that do exist are either more expensive or offer fewer features. Seriously, we need a list of products we can buy and use directly without worrying about telemetry or advertising.

The following list is updated at lemmy.ml/post/52706206. Please note that this list may contain errors.

PC: DIY + Linux (But don’t forget chip backdoor Thank you @geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml)
Laptop: Framework Laptop, System76, MNT
Smartphone: Brax Phone
- Brax Phone Criticism
Smartwatch: ?
TVs: ?
Game consoles: ?
Routers: ?
Security cameras: ?
E-ink devices: ?
Projectors: ?
Wireless headphones: ?
Speakers: ?
Printers: ?
3D printers: Prusa 3D Printer
Cars: ?
Anything else that doesn’t come with ads or telemetry built in?

Other suggestions:

ryf.fsf.org/products

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Comments

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Lumisal@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The Brax phone raised some extremely serious red flags when I saw they put on their banner it was promoted by Joe Rogan and use Brave as their primary browser.

Having two scammers featured makes it feel like a scam.

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- sumsinj@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I think it’s way too rare for brave to catch strays like this. Like it’s only at some nieche comment section where one person says things like “yea the founder is a homophobe”. I only ever see praise about it (and some people calling it scammy here on lemmy lol)
  
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  - Lumisal@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I didn’t know about the homophobe thing. I’m talking about the whole secretly mining crypto thing they did in the past and then afterwards the sketchy crypto pay stuff they tried to pull off after
    
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- gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I have included the criticism, but there is no evidence that it collects telemetry or displays ads.
  
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Whitebrow@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Would steam frame fall into a vr headset category that doesn’t spy on you?

Yes an account is required and it is made to primarily work with steam but from what I know it only sends stuff like eye tracking or camera data if you submit troubleshooting logs, everything else is either on device or not stored at all

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- gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Thanks the post is updated
  
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curbstickle_lw@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
This post is off-topic for the community.

That said, its a topic people here are quite passionate about, which is why it gathered quite a bit of comments already.

I’m going to leave it up, but locked.

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voidsignal@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Purism for phone and laptops, Starlabs for laptops and tablets.

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- AliasAKA@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  You can also use zwave with home assistant. In some ways a better protocol, but it’s not nearly as prolific as zigbee devices.
  
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- gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Thanks the post is updated
  
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FishFace@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Spoons are pretty safe

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- jj4211@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Ok, time for me to market my new eSpoon. It requires Internet and a subscription fee. It lets your health insurance company know your food intake and lets Google know your favorite foods.
  
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  - FishFace@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Hey wait, don’t
    
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WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Buy? That’s where you went wrong.

The less you buy, the healthier the society.

Trade with neighbors instead, make your own.

Use FOSS!

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- jj4211@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  But to the extent you do buy, it is nice to know.
  
  For example, even for an open hardware design, you need to buy parts.
  
  But some things are either possible, but already nicely packaged by someone else (my opengarage I could have built, but it was well worth it to buy). A video doorbell I don’t see good open designs for, so the “part” is the doorbell itself. A bed cooler has open designs, but they call on you to basically buy a donor commercial product to use for parts.
  
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- winkerjadams@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Donate to FOSS devs!
  
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sbeak@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
As for laptops, there are a lot of other options like Tuxedo, NovaCustom, and Slimbook

I would avoid the Brax phone, they haven’t fulfilled orders and are super shady + social media influencer platform is never a great look. I would prefer the Fairphone, they’ve been around for ages, and you can install mobile Linux on their devices too since they let you unlock the boot loader. postmarketOS on the FP6 is developing rapidly and very exciting! Other pmOS supported devices like the OP6 or Pixel 3a series could be considered too, as well as the custom Android ROMs (Graphene, Calyx, etc.)

AsteroidOS is Linux on smartwatches, what more do you want? You also have Pebble if you’re into e-ink and that sort

As for TVs, it’s tricky, but just look for the non-smart ones (there are quite a few!), and I know Sony makes the Bravia TVs where you can set them to be “basic” non-smart mode. You could also go with a projector instead, those usually don’t have smart TV shenanigans. You can also use a Linux mini PC running Plasma Bigscreen and/or Kodi as an alternative to Google TV.

Mini PCs running some form of Linux (Bazzite, CachyOS, Fedora, Mint, whatever) are always awesome. You also have emulation stuff, like the MiSTER Pi mentioned by another user, but you could run emulation stuff on any cheap hardware (running Linux) just fine.

OpenWRT is supported by lots of routers, and GL.iNet makes routers that have it preinstalled. You also have the MikroTik routers, which run the Linux-based RouterOS (+ they are based in Latvia 🇱🇻)

Reolink cameras w/ Frigate and Home Assistant is the best combo.

The only wireless headphones I would recommend are the Fairphone Fairbuds Gen 2, since they won’t die in a few years w/ replaceable parts and battery, and even then, for 99% of usecases, I would rather go with IEMs + some wireless dongle (I use the Fiio BTR11, but others exist too, in particular, the Fiio Snowsky Retro Nano has replaceable batteries of an esoteric form factor). You get the convenience of wireless as well as all the benefits of wired: harder to lose, better audio quality, WAY cheaper (seriously, I spent less than $30 on my kit), longer lasting, etc. I would recommend the Kiwi Ears Cadenza and Truthear Gate, and I’ve heard the Hexa/Pure is great too. Moondrop’s Chu 2 are awesome too with a metal shell for a ridiculously low price, but the brass nozzle oxidises and clogs in humid environments (I am in the humid land of HK, so no go for me)

As for printers, the Open Printer is crowd funding and looks really neat! You of course have the Brother laser printers too, but not sure about their telemetry and tracking.

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- msage@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Even projectors try to do smart tv bs nowadays.
  
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MalReynolds@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Smartwatch: Garmin (Fenix 6 gen and above if you want sleep monitoring) with gadgetbridge on android (preferably GrapheneOS) and selfhosted Endurain. Seeing as this is c/Selfhosted you can also roll your own dashboards with Grafana.

You’re thinking Garmin, really? Privacy? Actually Garmin’s T&Cs are IMO the best of the big names privacy wise, especially if you’re in the EU, but they’re publicly traded and subject to the ‘I have altered the deal, pray I don’t alter it any further’ changing terms at their whim, or just getting bought out and drained dry.

You know what’s better than OK T&Cs? Not giving them any data at all. On gOS I can pull the network permissions for Garmin Connect and still use it to set up the watch, do custom activities and so forth. When finished disable it and enable GadgetBridge. If you want watch faces do that with Connect IQ and then uninstall.

There are other gadgetbridge compatible devices but none with the build quality, feature set and quality health data. It’s been running for GB for more than a year and they haven’t sicced their lawyers on it.

You can also just connect it via USB and use any software that handles GPX etc. files.

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lilith267@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Cars: Anything released without wifi/calling. I dont think any modern electric predates this, but you can convert diesels to friendlier oils or most engines to a run off wood. As a bonus higher trim older cars used a lot less plastic

Smartwatch: Pinetime

3D printers: id like to add Sovol, not sure about their more recent ones but their older ones either didnt have wifi or run regular klipper. The SV06/SV06 ACE are also entirelly open source except for the GUI, but you can install other klipper GUIs (theres also a repo with steps to build a minimal Debian install instead of relying on sovols firmware updates)

Routers: GL.iNET Use a modified OpenWRT install out of the box but can be flashed to vanilla OpenWRT through the GUI

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- cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The Slate EV doesn’t have any telemetry.
  
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  - eleitl@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Is it shipping yet? Looks US-only.
    
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  - grue@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    The Slate EV also doesn’t actually exist yet.
    
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- eleitl@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Opnsense is a great router/firewall. OpenWRT is fine for WiFi APs.
  
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  - dieTasse@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    OpenWRT is also quite capable firewall. It’s a full fledged router software after all.
    
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- JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Smart watch:
  
  ZsWatch. They are developing the PPG sensor and I have used their PPG sensor hub driver for my own smart watch project. The guy heading it up is super knowledgable.
  
  Healthy Pi Move this one seems interesting but maybe less open.
  
  Also with GadgerBridge, you can have complete local control of many smart watches like Amazfit (Helio strap is my choice there for accuracy and whoop alternative. Bip3 is also very accurate) and a lot of Garmins and xiaomi.
  
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  - gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Thanks the post is updated
    
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- steelplatedmech@piefed.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Maybe snapmaker u1? I think their firmware is open source and if it goes the direction of bambu people are already able to run custom firmware, and printer functions fine completely offline.
  
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- gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Thanks @lilith267@lemmy.blahaj.zone The post is updated
  
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hperrin@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
For eink, the XTEink devices work offline. If you put crosspointreader.com on them, then it’s not even XTEink’s software running on it.

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ruplicant@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Brax Phone, LOL! yeah, I’ll surely trust this list…

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- gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I have included the criticism, but there is no evidence that it collects telemetry or displays ads.
  
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cauthon117@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Laptops: Tuxedo

Phone: Volla Phone

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- TheBlackFang@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Could someone elaborate how Volla Phone compares to Jolla phone? I honestly thought at first this was a typo but both actually exist 😅
  
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  - sbeak@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Jolla phone runs Sailfish OS (partially closed source, but Linux-based) while the Volla phones can either run Android or Ubuntu Touch (more open-source). They have very different aesthetics and target different prices too (the former is cheaper and has a plastic fantastic build, while the latter are glass slabs)
    
    Personally, I’m rooting for postmarketOS, since it’s compatible with lots of devices. has the ability to install Flatpaks due to using a mainline (or at least closer to it) kernel over Ubuntu Touch and SailfishOS using the Android kernel (or at least parts of it I think, “proprietary blobs”), and recently the Fairphone 6 has been getting good pmOS development (super exciting! Even fingerprint has been made to work!)
    
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lokalhorst@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
But why is the list not hosted in a repo or something but instead needs to be over at lemmy.ml?

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lIlIllIlIIIllIlIlII@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Game console: Mister FPGA (and other compatibles). Up to N64 hardware emulation without big tech behind. Internet connection not requited.

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- gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Thanks the post is updated
  
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grue@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Last I checked (which, admittedly, was a few years ago) I literally couldn’t find any security cameras that weren’t compromised in some way. The only options are basically:

Consumer models tied to “cloud” services

Generic Chinese ONVIF cameras that probably phone home to who knows where unless you firewall them off from the Internet

ONVIF cameras that might have a slightly better reputation than the previous category but are only sold through security system installers, not normal retail channels

Analog (not IP) cameras that you hook up via coaxial cable

Building your own goddamn camera from scratch with a Raspberry Pi or something

It’s ridiculous!

For TVs, there used to be the option of Sceptre dumb TVs, but even those have disappeared from the market in the last year or so.

I’ve been looking for a smartwatch/fitness tracker (and a bike computer, which is kind of a similar category) and the pickings seem very slim there, too. There’s the Pebble and the PineTime, which are open but maybe lack some of the sensors one might want in a fitness tracker, and there’s stuff that’s intended to be proprietary but supported by Gadgetbridge (e.g. iGPSPORT bike computers) . There might be others, but I don’t know about them.
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- Kupi@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Depending on how comfortable you are with flashing, you can go the Thingino route with security cameras. I would recommend getting cameras that can utilize the no tools/sd card method for flashing though. Wish I would’ve known that before buying my tapo cameras…
  
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DosDude@retrofed.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The Jolla phone.

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- MalReynolds@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  For privacy, probably better than Brax, worse than GrapheneOS at the moment. Should be possible to harden Jolla, but at the moment there’s no turnkey Linux phone that’s secure and privacy respecting of which I am aware. Fairphone 5/6 with PostmarketOS is coming along nicely as I understand, battery life notwithstanding.
  
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- gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Thanks the post is updated
  
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pHr34kY@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Mozilla has their Nothing Personal online magazine with product reviews. It’s only a small handful of product at this point. This started out as “Privacy Not Included”, which is now defunct.

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dieTasse@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Oh man how I wish Steam made a linux phone… Sure we have pmOS but it not yet daily driveable (I have it on op6) for most people and second, once there is official Linux phone from a big company, every Linux phone benefits because there will be new apps like banking apps and similar.

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dieTasse@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I would remove Brax Phone altogether, that guy is fearmongering people into buying old insecure phones. There were times I was watching his videos until I saw the pattern…

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- gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I have included the criticism, but there is no evidence that it collects telemetry or displays ads.
  
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Joker_1902@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I don’t have it so I can’t tell for sure about the telemetry part but PineTime is an open source smartwatch, so if someone can confirm about telemetry you could add it to the list.

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- pipe01@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Well it can only connect via Bluetooth to your phone so the watch itself can’t possibly have telemetry, it’s up to what companion app you use. And there are a lot of foss ones, like Gadgetbridge
  
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- absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I have one, I got it to replace my broken pebble. It felt very limited in comparison.
  
  I have since upgraded to a new pebble time 2. Fully open source now, not sure about telemetry, but since it is FOSS it is able to be modified.
  
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cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
If you want to go the DIY option for a 3D printer, there is Voron. It’s open source hardware and it runs the Klipper firmware which is open source.

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- gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Thanks the post is updated
  
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bad1080@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
i haven’t looked too deeply into the pine watch but i think it could be worth looking into (it is open source) https://pine64.org/devices/pinetime/

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falynns@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
There’s a Linux mobile OS that’s not related to something two scammers have boosted as part of their scams.

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fluckx@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
My supernote hasn’t advertised anything ( besides an occasional marketing email ): www.supernote.com

Category: e-ink device ( read+write ).

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eleitl@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
As to PC, there are coreboot/libreboot and RISCV as more open options. Phone and tablet, GrapheneOS and LineageOS. Projectors, any dumb projector.

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Kernal64@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The Bangle.js 2 for the smartwatch category. Open source OS, no server to phone home to, the data stays on device unless you copy it to your phone or PC. The heart rate monitor and sleep detection are jank af, but it does everything else well.

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- gif8287@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Thanks the post is updated
  
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bad1080@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
printer: https://www.opentools.studio/fr but i read some criticism about it here: https://piefed.social/c/opensource@lemmy.ml/p/2393054/open-source-printer-coming-before-2027#post_replies

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StillAlive@piefed.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Anything else that doesn’t come with ads or telemetry built in?

Cabbages?

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