Debunking The "Dirty" Solar Panels And Battery Myth

Comments

• TheWonderfool@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Nice article.

  I feel though that, as many others, it compares the carbon footprint of production (panels and batteries) vs the footprint of burning only. By looking at the source of the carbon footprint, it seems that they take into account only the CO2 output of the energy factories, but extraction, transportation and storage has a non-negligible carbon footprint.

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  • jonne@infosec.pub ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Most of those comparisons are done in bad faith. As you said, they compare the whole chain for renewables/electric cars/windmills (parts of that chain could be decarbonised down the line anyway) to just the burning of the fuel, forgetting about extraction, exploration, transport and refining. Before you even get to the stage where you’re burning fuel in your engine, there’s been multiples of the CO2 and other greenhouse gases emitted already.

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  • Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    And they’re pretty big differences. Burning a cubic meter of natural gas produces 1.7kg of co2, but producing and transporting it adds another 0.3kg to that. (In the Netherlands, at least, ymmv).

    For something like gasoline or diesel, co2 emissions from well to tank is something like a quarter of all emission.

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  • psud@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    They steel-manned the argument. They ignored the setup and supply of fossil fuels, while counting those for solar and battery, and even with giving the advantage to fossil fuels they showed solar and batteries both much better than fossil fuels

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• bassomitron@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Mining/extraction of lithium is extremely destructive to the environment. This article gives a general overview of our predicament with having such a strong dependency on lithium for batteries: …climate.columbia.edu/…/the-paradox-of-lithium/

  …columbia.edu/…/stop-calling-green-energy-clean/ goes into more depth with how much pollution mining/extracting lithium generates.

  I don’t see it discussed nearly enough that finding an alternative to lithium should be among the top priorities in research.

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  • Adalast@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    youtube.com/@UndecidedMF

    This guy does a ton of videos on battery technology that is prepping for the market. One of the biggest things he mentions in every battery video is that we need to stop looking for a silver bullet and that all of the technologies have their place. Flow batteries are amazing for industrial/grid-scale storage, lithium-ion is good for small consumer electronics, and betavoltaics could be used for low-power sensors that are becoming quite prevalent. It is going to be a challenge of figuring out the right answer for a given class of situations, not one of finding the best battery.

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    • bassomitron@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Nice, I’ll check out his channel!

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    • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’m surprised I never hear about Nickel–iron batteries for solar storage in pop media. Long life span, common metals, wide temperature ranges. Seems perfect for household/small industrial storage, but instead, people are strapping Musk’s lithium bombs to the sides of their garages.

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  • ArdMacha@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    They found it, sodium

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  • psud@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The article focuses entirely on the CO2 spent, and uses a pretty high number for batteries, taking nearly a year of daily use and clean charging to offset versus gas

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  • cley_faye@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    People are looking for alternative to lithium batteries. Unfortunately the world does not stop while we’re looking.

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  • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I don’t see it discussed nearly enough that finding an alternative to lithium should be among the top priorities in research.

    Like the Italian startup with their massive CO2 battery? It was reported a year ago.

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• Lord_ToRA@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Where’s our slrpnk.net people?

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• Tremble@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  What is the carbon footprint of me covering my roast chicken in fucking aluminum foil and then throwing the foil away because it has grease on it and can no longer be recycled

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  • pozbo@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    has grease on it and can no longer be recycled

    You’re thinking of cardboard. They melt Al scraps down at like 1300°c and any organics burn off or are removed as slag.

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    • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Like the OP, my county changed it’s rule and said do not put aluminum foil in recycling if it has any food residue on it.

      Check your county recycling. You might be surprised what has changed.

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  • PhreakyByNature@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Apparently just don’t cover it in foil

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    • Tremble@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I don’t do it but it does make it a little bit crispier without drying it out

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  • Zoboomafoo@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Only if the grease is super baked on, I don’t know how you roast your chickens but when I do the foil is fine to recycle

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    • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Check your county recycling for updates. My county recently changed to don’t recycle aluminum foil if it touched food.

      Doesn’t make sense to me but that’s their new rule.

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  • crsu@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Use a baster like a master

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    • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Alton Brown debunked basting decades ago.

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  • mindlight@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Of course it’s possible recycle aluminum covered in grease. It has to be cleaned before recycling though. Incineration is often used for getting rid of the plastic layer in soda cans and it’s possible to use the same method for fat too.

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