What is a worker's union? How does it internally work? How can a union make the affiliated company do stuff to benefit the union(why can"t a company just say: f*ck off to their demands)?

Comments

• Pronell@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If the company tells the union to fuck off, all of the workers who belong to thar union walk off the job and the employer has to run short handed or shut down production.

  The union is the workers joining together so that they have more bargaining power - all the people who know how the business works are sitting idle. Can the business afford to replace and retrain them all?

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  • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    If the company tells the union to fuck off, all of the workers who belong to that union walk off the job and the employer has to run short handed or shut down production.

    or hire scabs. (which… heh. leads to bullshit QC.)

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    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Which isn’t legal everywhere!

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    • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Or, if you’re in Reagan Mode™: declare the strike illegal, fire everyone, and hire scabs as permanent replacements.

      Genuinely surprised that that whole ATC negotiation fiasco didn’t eventually involve some sort of air catastrophe.

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    • RagingHungryPanda@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      or be a scab and do such a bad job you cost the company money!

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    • seliaste@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Disco elysium style

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• Dagamant@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  a union is a legally protected way for works to collectively bargain with their employers. Internally, union dues are used to pay for legal assistance (among other things) that can help the workers. A union can make the affiliated company do things by creating legal agreements and organizing strikes. A company often finds it is easier to give into a unions demands rather than have their employees stop working and hold signs outside letting everyone know that they are being treated poorly. A company can tell a union to fuck off and they often do, this leads to the workers going on strike and bringing business to a standstill.

  Almost every right that workers have today has been won by unions, sometimes violently. 40 hour work weeks, weekends off, vacation days, sick days, health benefits, minimum wage, overtime pay, and many others are all from the collective bargaining power of workers unions.

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• Nibodhika@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  What is a worker’s union?

  A group of workers that act together for mutual benefit

  How does it internally work?

  Each can organise in its own wat

  How can a union make the affiliated company do stuff to benefit the union(why can"t a company just say: f*ck off to their demands)?

  Because there’s a large difference between the bargaining power a single employee has than all of them together. If one employee says “give me the weekend off or I stop working” the company will fire him, lose a small bit of productivity temporarily, hire one guy and have someone train him, in a short while they’re up again to the same productivity level and that’s that. If all of the workers say at the same time “give us the weekend off or we stop working” the company can’t fire everyone, I mean, they can, but it will take them a long time to hire the same amount of people, then hire external people to train them, then wait until they get up to speed and produce the same amount of work the previous guys did, and in the meantime they produce 0 so they’re burning money and missing deadlines… In other words, it’s cheaper for the company to talk to the union than it is to have to fire everyone.

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• gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Before unions were a thing, effective negotiations with management often looked something like this:

  hey boss, me and the boys have decided that we enjoy being able to give our families dinner every night, so you’re going to give us a raise, or we’ll burn your fucking factory to the ground.

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  • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    You forgot the last bit. “With you and yours in it.”

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• Entertainmeonly@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  They try. They hire temp workers known as scabs to try and continue producing. These individuals are looked upon as scum. Scabs are looked down on and become pariah of there town so not many people are willing to become scabs. Without workers willing to become scabs the company is forced to come to the table out of necessity.

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  • i_dont_want_to@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Got a real stupid follow-up question: besides asking in an interview or discovering the fact in the news or a web search, is there a way to know if the reason a company is hiring because the union members left?

    What is stopping the company from hiding this fact? I want to believe it works but every time I am hopeful about something like this working there is something I am missing that makes things business as usual.

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    • Entertainmeonly@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It would be pretty obvious as you would most likely be walking through a picket line if you where hired as a scab. This is known as crossing the line and is a sure way to get labeled a scab.

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• FuglyDuck@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  a union is a group of employees who band together to bargain for better terms in their contract. better wages, better benefits, workplace safety. Hours and priority. Stuff like that.

  When you work for a company, you have a contract to provide that work in exchange for payment. Everyone has a contract. Without a union, you’re on your own negotiating that contract- among other things leading to income inequality and bullshit managers underbidding the job to shit employees.

  the union bargains that contract collectively, giving them more bargaining power and -ostensibly- getting you a better contract. Not every union is as interested in actually doing their job, mind you. most are at least ‘okay’.

  The union also ostensibly provides representation in disputes with management. If you’re being written up or harassed, or management is making you work someplace unsafe, they have legal resources on tap to help, and for example, if I want to discipline an employee (i.e. write them up,) I have to offer setting the meeting up with their union rep. and we can’t “just” terminate you for being an incompentent lunatic- we have to document shit. this leads to management usually documenting every stupid thing you do- including being 1 minute late and going to the shitter too frequently. so we can show “a pattern of behavior” that gives cause- because we don’t like paying unemployment.

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• Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  It’s basically a club defending worker rights. In big companies you have to elect worker representative who are supported by unions.

  HR have to meet these represertative a few time a year. They have the right to say fuck off to them, but listening what employee wants work better. Union rep are also involved in investigating work accidents and in some countries (Germany) even sit at the company board

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• slazer2au@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  A union is a group of employees who negotiate with an employer for things like standard pay, benifits and conditions.

  Why can’t a business say 🖕 to a union? Because two things will happen, the staff will stop working until the buniness recognise the union or the staff will quit and the business will have to hire new people.

  Both of these cause either a loss of revenue while work is not happening or a decrease in productivity while new staff are found and onboarded.

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• stoy@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  A workers union is an organization made up of workers who have decided to work together to try and force a company/employer to give in to the demands of the workers.

  The reason why it works is that the union have several actions they can take if the demands are not met.

  First of all, all union members pay a membership fee, most of that money goes into a fund to enable the workers to actually take the actions required.

  So what actions can a union take against the employer?

  1. Striking, all workers down tools and stop working, this harms the employer as no money is being made from their workers, the buildings still costs money for upkeep and power, naturally an epmloyer wont pay their employees on strike, this is when the union themselves pay ther members from the fund set up.

  2. Lockout, a union can prevent other workers from entering a place of work when they are striking, this stops the employer from hiring strike breakers.

  3. Legal action can also be taken.

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  • BallsInTheShredder@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Oh wow, so during a strike the union pays employees? Never realized this happened but it makes so much sense now, so the employees can strike without having to worry about going broke. Would be cool if that funding were extended so that if an employer decides to give strikers the middle finger, those people can ride that funding until another job is found. Reducing the hold companies have on employees.

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    • stoy@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Well, depending on the union, you may not get the full ammount, but they have money to give to members while on strike.

      Also yes, here in Sweden all Unions have a separate fund, called Arbetslöshetskassa, it is ment to supplement your income when you get let go from a job and are looking for a new job.

      Finally, here in Sweden, there are very few Unions that are workplace dependant, they are industry dependant.

      You have a union for normal laborers, a union for civil engineers, transport workers, nurses, builders, IT workers and more.

      They are large and it is very common to be a member of one of them.

      Right now, Tesls is trying to skip out on signing a collective bargning agreement with IF Metall, the metal workers union, who’s members are doing servicing of Tesla cars, so they are on strike, not every union worker is on strike, just the ones working for Tesla.

      Tesla has brought in scabs as a counter to the strike, but what they probably have not considered is that sympathy strikes are legal and used here, so the dockworkers union have stated that they will not unload Tesla cars arriving at the docks for deliver, unless a collective bargning agreement is signed on monday.

      Toys ‘R’ Us tried this shit decades ago, and the trasport workers union refused their deliveries, the finance workers union regused to process their payments, the builders union refused to do any work to their stores.

      They signed, as will Tesla.

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    • aelwero@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You didn’t know unions pay employees during a strike because they almost never do…

      Unions are funded by members. The money you’d get while striking would have to be money you yourself paid into union dues. In order for you to be paid while striking, you’d either have had to have been paying very steep dues, or had to have been paying in for a very long time into a very old and established union.

      Further, said ancient union would have had to have been collecting dues for a considerable length of time and not been spending anything. Let’s say I make 50k/year and I pay 2%, or $1k/yr. In order to go on strike for a month, I need 6 years of dues stored up. If there’s 100 members, your talking about $100k/yr that goes completely untouched the entire time. What agency have you ever heard of that would sit on that amount of money? They would spend a large portion on something. Invariably.

      It’s not the reality of unions. Its a fairy tale. Ask Google if a union pays workers wages when they strike… Don’t take people’s word on shit like that (including mine) when you can Google.

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• MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  The official term is collective bargaining, usually it’s performed by a union, but it can take other forms.

  The modern implementation is that either you meet our demands/come to an acceptable compromise with us, or we all will, as a group, not do the thing that makes you money (aka, we will go on strike).

  Companies either play ball or lose productivity.

  Collective bargaining is lawfully protected in most first world countries, so retaliation against the workers or even a single worker can result in legal action and/or fines against the company.

  The bottom line for any company is to make money, so when all the workers stop doing their jobs at once, money stops coming in. So companies tend to listen to unions because they have the power to significantly damage the companies ability to generate profit.

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• aelwero@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  A union works almost the same way an HOA works. A group of people get together and sign a contract agreeing to abide by certain rules.

  Internally, there’s generally a governing board, usually an elected one, but occasionally you get a dictatorship type deal. They may or may not implement rules, they might issue IDs of some sort, they almost invariably hold meetings, and almost always charge dues, which is a fee members pay to be a member, in principle to fund union activities.

  The leverage a union holds it’s in its membership. Generally the rules of a union are that as a member you agree to certain actions, and the obvious is to strike. The most common union rule is that if the union body calls a strike, you aren’t allowed to come to work. That gives the union body the ability to force a company to meet certain demands or face the prospect of not having anyone show up.

  The basic overall concept is that the union leadership negotiates with company leadership on behalf of the union members.

  The downsides are also similar to an HOA, especially when a union gets very large. You can find yourself subject to rules governing your behavior, your appearance, your hours, etc. You might find yourself being more an employee of the union than the company.

  Small unions are almost always beneficial, but can lack negotiating power. Large ones can and often do become self serving and overly political, but have a lot of power to affect pay, benefits, hours, etc. for their members

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  • unoriginalsin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Alexa, bite me.

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• nucawysi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  well its all dependent on negotiating power of the union to cost the company profits if they strike and the trust in union that the company will not violate any contract they sign. The whole thing is dependent on the ability of the union to effectively strike and it doesnt always work and companies are willing to take a loss sometimes

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